A Sudden Death Followed by Profound Grief, a Lot of Swearing and, Later, Abundant Gratitude

In this fifth excerpt from a longer conversation, Iris November and daughters Anita Hollander and Rev. Rachel Hollander, talk about how the family struggled in the aftermath of the sudden passing of Iris' husband, Bernard "Bud" Hollander. Father of Anita, Rachel and their sisters, Celia Hollander Lewis and Lisa Hollander, he was the "cornerstone of our family," Rachel says.

Iris was 42 at the time of her husband's fatal heart attack, and she quickly had to shoulder household responsibilities she had never handled before. Far worse, the family faced multiple health crises shortly after Bernard's death. Despite the many hardships, mother and daughters express deep gratitude for their lives and for each other.

If this short episode piques your interest to hear more, please check out the other excerpts or the full interview, which is Episode 121.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Audible, iHeart and Spotify.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:27 Excerpt begins
• 17:30 Closing remarks

Transcript

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Hello, I'm Kate Jones. In this excerpt from

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a longer interview featuring Iris November and daughters

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Anita Hollander and the Reverend Rachel Hollander,

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they recount the sudden passing of her husband,

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their father, and what they all went through

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in the difficult

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aftermath.

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And they also talked about fond remembrances

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and the immense gratitude they have for their

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lives and for each other.

Rachel:

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So my mom was 42

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when my dad passed. I was 12. She

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was 42.

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And she had gone from her parents' house,

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her dad's house, to my dad's house. That's

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not saying she wasn't accomplished. She was very

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accomplished. She went to school. She had degrees.

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However,

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she was also a mom.

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And

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when my dad was gone, she'd never written

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a check.

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We needed a new refrigerator. She freaked out.

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How do you buy a refrigerator?

Iris:

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A new car. Oh my God. 

Rachel:

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And then the camper, my dad had bought this. 

Iris:

Yes.

Rachel:

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My dad had achieved the dream of his

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life. He bought this camper,

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and she now had to learn how to

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drive it.  

Iris: 

It was a motor home.

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I took off every stop sign as I went by.

Rachel:

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I'm in the passenger side. She's

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going, "Oh, my God. The mirrors are going to take

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off the stop sign! "I'm like, you're fine.

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"No. No." They're good. I'm like, you're fine.

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I'm looking. But there were these things that

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she had to do, plus she had two

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daughters in college, one in high school and

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little fragile me at 12 who wasn't telling

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her anything that was going on in my

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head.

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I was already

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deeply aware of the depression

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and deeply haunted and not saying anything to

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anybody. So we had all this going on,

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and she was carrying all of this.

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Talk about that.

Iris:

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Do I have to? 

Rachel:

No. 

Iris:

Thank you.

Rachel:

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But it was a lot. It was a

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lot. He was

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a rock

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of a human being.

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He was, like, the cornerstone of our family.

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I think I can say that confidently. I

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mean, I was 12, so he was my

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cornerstone.

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And the absence of him was, like, a

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huge,

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gaping abyss.

Iris:

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I called it my umbrella.

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He was our umbrella.

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He

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just took care of all of us,

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and he died of a heart attack at

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the tennis court. So we weren't prepared.

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Totally numb. 

Kate:

So sudden like that. 

Iris:

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Suddenness of death. My mom died after a couple years

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of illness and couple weeks of dying.

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But he went to play tennis, and next

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thing I knew, I was called by the

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hospital,

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and he was gone.

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So,

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consequently, what happened to the girls

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was shocking,

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but they also each became sick.

Rachel:

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Yeah.

Iris:

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The first one was a month after Dad

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died. Celia got spinal meningitis

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in college,

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and we almost lost her.

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And then

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Lisa got

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erythema nodosum, whatever that was.

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And then Anita got cancer, and Rachel had

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a nervous breakdown. And Rachel ended up in a

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psychiatric hospital in New York.

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And when I look at my life, God

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bless me, I'm blessed because I have all,

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I shouldn't even say it, but I have

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the four girls.

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And each time, there was some moment in

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my life when I was not going to have them.

Rachel:

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And you got pneumonia. 

Iris:

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Oh, yeah. Well, that was a gift.

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I needed pneumonia. I needed pneumonia so I

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could go to bed.

Rachel:

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She had pneumonia, and I was still, I

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think I was still either in junior high

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or high school, but I learned years later

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that my three older sisters

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were having a conversation about "what are we

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gonna do with Rachel if mom

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succumbs to pneumonia?" Here I was

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12, 13, 14. I was afraid to leave

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the house because every time I left the

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house, somebody got deathly ill. 

Iris:

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It was a terrible time

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for all of us. And I did keep

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journals. You know, I'm a writer kind of

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person.

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So I look back at my journals, and

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I must tell everybody,

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keep journals. And the reason I say this

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is when you read the words

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that you wrote at the moment

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you wrote them,

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it's different from writing years later and saying,

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"I remember when I was 15 and blah

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blah blah blah blah."

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And I wanna tell one that I love

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to tell because the girls love it.

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I was 15

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when we started

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at Anshe Chesed Temple

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because my dad knew my mother was dying

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and we needed a rabbi.

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So we joined. At that time, it was

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Euclid Avenue Temple, but was Anshe Chesed.

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The very first service that we attended was

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a Hanukkah service.

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I was 15 and a half.

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I noticed this good-looking guy,

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and I didn't think much of it. And

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afterwards, we were introduced and he was introduced

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to me.

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He became my husband.

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So my whole life began at 15 and a half

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at Temple.

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He, of course, was 22 years old,

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so we won't go there.

Anita:

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Well, he probably she was 22

00:05:01.485 --> 00:05:03.645
because she looked like a Glamour model. 

Iris:

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My family felt that I was safer

00:05:05.965 --> 00:05:07.025
with him than with

00:05:07.325 --> 00:05:09.325
an 18-year-old horny guy. 

Rachel and Anita:

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Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

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They behaved. They behaved. 

Iris:

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I didn't know my mom was dying, by the way. I thought

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she was ill, but I didn't know.

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It was in June or July. She died

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in August. I was in 10th grade then.

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He, of course, was in law school.

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But I came home, and my mother said

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to me, "I got flowers from my son-in-law."

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And I thought, oh, she's ill. She's

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hallucinating. And I said, really, mom? And who

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sent them? And she said, "Buddy."

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And that was

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my husband-to-be, the man I met.

Rachel:

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You were gonna talk about what you wrote

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in your journal. 

Iris:

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Oh, my journal. Yes. So I wrote in the journal

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about

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three months later.

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I was dating Buddy. He was taking me

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out every Saturday night. He finally figured out

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how old I was.

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He was shocked. He thought I was just

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in high school, a senior maybe. I was in

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10th grade.

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Years later, I decided the reason he liked

00:06:09.805 --> 00:06:10.785
me so much

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was that if he at 22

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was dating girls at 20,

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they would want to get married.

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I was 16, 17.

Kate:

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You needed to graduate from high school.

Iris:

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I just wanted to finish my homework!

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I have a paper to write for 11th

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grade. And so

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I was a safe bet.

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But I wrote in my journal about three

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months into the dating,

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and it goes something like this:

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"I really like Bud.

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I think I could be in love with

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him

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as much as a 15-year-old girl

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knows about love." I wrote that, and I

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never could have written that two months later.

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I had to write it the night that

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I wrote that I was in love. And,

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really, I mean, I get chills even now

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when I say it. So everybody, write what

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you do every day

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because it's precious.

Rachel:

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My favorite of her journal entries is,

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"Buddy Hollander called tonight to ask me to

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the dance. I'm so excited. It was their first date.

Iris:

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And then I tripped over

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something and broke my toe.

Kate:

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At the dance? 

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No. On the way to the phone. My mother said, "Bud's on the

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phone," and I ran to get it. And

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I hit my foot, and I'm crying into

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the phone because I broke my toe.

Kate:

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Oh, my goodness. 

Rachel:

00:07:27.735 --> 00:07:30.855
The coolest thing about my dad for me now is that I

00:07:30.855 --> 00:07:32.795
look exactly like him.

Iris:

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She truly does. 

Rachel:

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And when I wake up in the morning

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and I don't have my glasses on, I'm

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kind of groggy and I stumble into the bathroom.

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When I turn on the light, it's like,

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yo, dad.

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But I get to see what my dad

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would have looked like had he aged past

00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:47.050
48,

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and it's such a gift. I'm like, oh,

00:07:49.265 --> 00:07:51.525
there you are. You're in my face.

Anita:

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I think there's one thing that Mom hasn't

00:07:54.465 --> 00:07:54.965
mentioned,

00:07:55.425 --> 00:07:56.325
and that is

00:07:56.705 --> 00:07:59.265
because all of us got sick, she became

00:07:59.265 --> 00:08:00.165
a fierce

00:08:00.545 --> 00:08:01.045
bulldog.

00:08:01.425 --> 00:08:02.805
People at the Neurological

00:08:03.265 --> 00:08:05.030
Institute in New York City

00:08:05.330 --> 00:08:09.490
and Columbia Presbyterian Hospital warned each other about

00:08:09.490 --> 00:08:11.810
this woman because a lot of doctors told

00:08:11.810 --> 00:08:13.330
me there was nothing wrong with me. It

00:08:13.330 --> 00:08:15.350
took nine months and 10 doctors

00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:17.970
to get a diagnosis that I had cancer

00:08:17.970 --> 00:08:19.490
in my leg. Everybody was saying, "What are

00:08:19.490 --> 00:08:21.375
you here for? There's nothing wrong. Lose some

00:08:21.375 --> 00:08:24.655
weight," stuff like that. But my mom was

00:08:24.655 --> 00:08:26.675
not having any of it,

00:08:27.055 --> 00:08:28.735
and she just kept taking me to more

00:08:28.735 --> 00:08:31.055
doctors, taking me to more doctors. As far

00:08:31.055 --> 00:08:32.975
as she was concerned, "My daughter's in pain.

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She's never been in pain like this before.

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I know that she would never even talk

00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:38.420
about something if she wasn't in that much

00:08:38.420 --> 00:08:38.920
pain."

00:08:39.380 --> 00:08:42.580
She was so fierce that at a certain

00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:43.480
point, she

00:08:43.940 --> 00:08:46.100
went up that elevator to the top floor,

00:08:46.100 --> 00:08:49.460
chief surgeon at the Neurological Institute, marched into

00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:51.385
his office, past the receptionist,

00:08:51.765 --> 00:08:53.765
and laid into him so that from then

00:08:53.765 --> 00:08:54.265
on,

00:08:54.805 --> 00:08:56.985
nobody ever wanted to mess with my mom.

Iris:

00:08:57.605 --> 00:09:00.005
Thank you. Yes. That's true. 

Anita:

00:09:00.005 --> 00:09:01.685
And you also did it for Celia when she had spinal

00:09:01.685 --> 00:09:04.150
meningitis. 

Iris:

Oh my God, yeah. 

Anita:

00:09:04.150 --> 00:09:06.070
If nothing came out of that, all of

00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.310
the pain and the sorrow and the loss,

00:09:08.310 --> 00:09:09.530
it was that Mom

00:09:10.470 --> 00:09:10.970
was fierce.

00:09:11.270 --> 00:09:13.910
Really fierce. 

Rachel:

00:09:13.910 --> 00:09:15.750
I just want to say it started right away. 

Iris:

00:09:15.750 --> 00:09:17.990
It did. It was a month after Dad died. 

Rachel:

00:09:17.990 --> 00:09:20.785
Well, no. For me, it was the week after I just started

00:09:20.785 --> 00:09:23.605
seventh grade at Byron Junior High School, which

00:09:23.985 --> 00:09:25.985
some people say is called Shaker Middle School,

00:09:25.985 --> 00:09:28.705
but I refuse. It's Byron Junior High School.

00:09:28.705 --> 00:09:30.945
And I just started seventh grade, and my

00:09:30.945 --> 00:09:33.240
homeroom teacher, I will not say her name,

00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.320
but my homeroom teacher was having us fill

00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.080
out the census cards. You know, we had

00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.000
to do those census cards, and I didn't

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.080
know my dad's work address. So I was

00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:42.600
like, I don't know. And she said, "Well,

00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:43.260
go home

00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:45.880
and get his work address and then bring

00:09:45.880 --> 00:09:48.300
it back." And that night, he died.

00:09:49.295 --> 00:09:51.055
So I didn't go back to school the

00:09:51.055 --> 00:09:53.135
next day. It was a Wednesday. Friday was

00:09:53.135 --> 00:09:53.795
the funeral.

00:09:54.415 --> 00:09:56.595
So I walked back into school on Monday,

00:09:56.735 --> 00:09:58.575
barely. I mean, I got halfway down the

00:09:58.575 --> 00:10:00.735
street, came back home. My mom dragged me

00:10:00.735 --> 00:10:01.395
to school.

00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:05.580
I walked into homeroom, and this woman

00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:08.360
walked down the aisle with the census card,

00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.040
put it on my desk, and said, "Just

00:10:10.040 --> 00:10:11.800
draw a line through your dad's name and

00:10:11.800 --> 00:10:12.620
write deceased."

Kate:

00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.395
Oh my gosh. 

Rachel:

00:10:16.395 --> 00:10:18.575
And I got up, walked out of the room, walked to the counselor's

00:10:18.635 --> 00:10:21.215
office, God bless Miss Kay Brower.

Anita:

00:10:21.755 --> 00:10:23.295
Kay Brower. 

Rachel:

00:10:23.835 --> 00:10:25.915
Give her a blessing. And I told her what happened, and I

00:10:25.915 --> 00:10:27.755
just sat in a chair and cried. And

00:10:27.755 --> 00:10:29.835
she called my mom, and my mom came

00:10:29.835 --> 00:10:30.335
down.

Iris:

Yes.

00:10:31.275 --> 00:10:34.030

Rachel:

She had a moment with my homeroom teacher.

00:10:34.650 --> 00:10:36.330
And the next day when I showed up

00:10:36.330 --> 00:10:38.490
for school, I said do I still have

00:10:38.490 --> 00:10:40.510
to ...? She said, "It's all taken care of."

00:10:41.050 --> 00:10:41.950
So it started days after.

Iris:

00:10:42.650 --> 00:10:45.765
Well, that's what's so remarkable because

00:10:45.765 --> 00:10:47.785
I was basically not shy,

00:10:48.325 --> 00:10:51.045
but quiet. I hardly raised my voice.

00:10:51.045 --> 00:10:53.845
I didn't swear. I started to swear the

00:10:53.845 --> 00:10:56.245
day that Dad died. I swore like a sailor.

Kate:

00:10:56.245 --> 00:10:58.940
You had a lot to swear about. 

Iris:

00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:00.780
Honestly, I didn't know where the words were coming from

00:11:00.780 --> 00:11:02.540
because I'd never, I wouldn't even let you

00:11:02.540 --> 00:11:05.120
guys swear at home. You could swear outside,

00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:07.580
but you couldn't swear in the house. Oh

00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:09.120
my God. I was terrible.

00:11:09.660 --> 00:11:12.640
But that's what happened. And, yeah,

00:11:12.965 --> 00:11:15.125
I became a lioness. That's what I call

00:11:15.125 --> 00:11:17.045
it. I was a lioness. 

Anita:

00:11:17.045 --> 00:11:19.445
Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about it, in second grade, when

00:11:19.445 --> 00:11:21.205
I got a C in science, the only

00:11:21.205 --> 00:11:23.065
C I'd ever gotten, and

00:11:23.765 --> 00:11:25.445
the vice principal had said to me, "You

00:11:25.445 --> 00:11:27.845
know, you're probably never gonna do better than

00:11:27.845 --> 00:11:28.665
a C because you're ...

Iris:

00:11:29.030 --> 00:11:31.750
... you're average," she told me. 

Anita:

00:11:31.750 --> 00:11:33.670
I went home and told Mom, don't worry. I'm

00:11:33.670 --> 00:11:35.910
just average. She marched me right back to

00:11:35.910 --> 00:11:38.410
school. So she was a fierce mama lion

00:11:38.870 --> 00:11:40.790
from way back. But she was this

00:11:40.790 --> 00:11:43.475
charming woman. Any social situation,

00:11:43.855 --> 00:11:44.915
charming, beautiful

00:11:45.295 --> 00:11:45.795
until

00:11:46.175 --> 00:11:48.175
you crossed the line: At 8 years old,

00:11:48.175 --> 00:11:49.695
when I got that report card and got

00:11:49.695 --> 00:11:50.595
that little message

00:11:50.975 --> 00:11:53.295
from the vice principal, she marched me into

00:11:53.295 --> 00:11:55.155
her office and said, "Don't you ever,

00:11:55.890 --> 00:11:59.570
ever tell my daughter what she can't do."

00:11:59.570 --> 00:12:02.630
She died shortly after. 

Iris:

It wasn't my fault!

Anita:

00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:05.570
From then on, and you gotta understand that

00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:07.650
the time went by when I was thought

00:12:07.650 --> 00:12:09.505
to be a klutz. I was thought to

00:12:09.505 --> 00:12:11.425
be not very bright, I ended up being

00:12:11.425 --> 00:12:12.485
an honors student.

00:12:12.865 --> 00:12:15.185
Months after that little event of "I'm not

00:12:15.185 --> 00:12:17.985
smart enough," I got a professional job. Nobody

00:12:17.985 --> 00:12:21.105
else at Mercer School was doing professional theater

00:12:21.105 --> 00:12:22.565
in second grade, nobody.

00:12:23.380 --> 00:12:26.580
And so she taught me that no, nobody

00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:29.060
tells you that stuff. My getting cancer, losing

00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:31.060
my hair, losing my leg. I was like,

00:12:31.060 --> 00:12:32.920
I'd already had so

00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:35.480
much my training from my mom.

00:12:35.995 --> 00:12:37.915
All the loss she suffered didn't really make

00:12:37.915 --> 00:12:40.735
her into that mighty fierce human being. But

00:12:41.115 --> 00:12:43.595
she had that tool inside her, which she used

00:12:43.595 --> 00:12:44.495
very carefully.

00:12:45.195 --> 00:12:47.515
She was kind and generous and loving and

00:12:47.515 --> 00:12:49.375
charming to everybody. But

00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:50.560
when necessary,

00:12:51.580 --> 00:12:53.500
she could be the most fierce person on

00:12:53.500 --> 00:12:55.420
the planet. Don't get me wrong. She wasn't

00:12:55.420 --> 00:12:57.500
a theater mom. We'd go to an audition.

00:12:57.500 --> 00:12:58.240
She'd say,

00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:00.300
"If you want to do this, I will

00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:02.265
take you. But it's for the experience." The

00:13:02.265 --> 00:13:03.945
whole "Sound of Music" audition was just me

00:13:03.945 --> 00:13:05.945
and Celia went because it would be fun.

00:13:05.945 --> 00:13:07.945
It would be a great experience. Neither of

00:13:07.945 --> 00:13:10.105
us expected anything out of it, and my

00:13:10.105 --> 00:13:12.505
life has been like that. 

Rachel:

00:13:12.505 --> 00:13:13.485
So my "Sound of Music" story,

00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:15.860
because we all have a "Sound of Music"

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.160
story, was my dad was driving my sister

00:13:18.160 --> 00:13:20.480
Lisa to audition for "Sound of Music." And

00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.240
I said, oh, can I go along? So

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.320
I'm sitting in the car, and he's driving,

00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:25.780
and he said, "So, what are you singing

00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.920
for your audition? And I said, oh, I'm

00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:29.600
not trying out. Lisa's trying out. And he

00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:31.735
goes, "We're going to a 'Sound of Music'

00:13:31.735 --> 00:13:34.215
audition. You're trying out. What are you gonna

00:13:34.215 --> 00:13:36.635
sing?" So I sang, "You Are My Sunshine"

00:13:37.815 --> 00:13:40.455
because I didn't have anything prepared. And Lisa

00:13:40.455 --> 00:13:42.375
and I both got cast. She was Louisa.

00:13:42.375 --> 00:13:43.195
I was Brigitte.

00:13:44.090 --> 00:13:46.270
And then the next year, I was upgraded

00:13:46.330 --> 00:13:48.570
to Louisa at a different production. 

Iris:

00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:51.210
The one thing I used to tell them, because it

00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.050
hurts when you audition and you think you've

00:13:53.050 --> 00:13:54.570
done a good job and then they pass

00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:56.490
you over. I always say, it's not that

00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.815
you did a bad audition. It's just that

00:13:58.815 --> 00:14:01.075
they were looking for something else,

00:14:01.455 --> 00:14:04.355
and it's not your fault. It's their choice.

00:14:04.495 --> 00:14:06.995
I would've picked you, of course.

00:14:07.855 --> 00:14:10.115
But it's a way of looking at rejection.

00:14:10.655 --> 00:14:11.795
It's not rejection.

00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:14.760
It's a different choice. 

Kate:

00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:16.840
Absolutely. And it's all part of

00:14:18.020 --> 00:14:19.000
us creating

00:14:19.620 --> 00:14:22.820
our reality, creating great lives. And the cards

00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:24.740
you've been dealt have not always been 

00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:25.240
the best.  

Rachel:   

00:14:25.795 --> 00:14:27.175
And so grateful

00:14:27.955 --> 00:14:28.455
because

00:14:28.995 --> 00:14:30.755
of what we have had and what we

00:14:30.755 --> 00:14:31.895
do have. We are

00:14:32.595 --> 00:14:33.815
incredibly blessed

00:14:34.355 --> 00:14:37.395
with amazing lives. I have wonderful nieces and

00:14:37.395 --> 00:14:39.735
nephews and grand-nieces and nephews,

00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:43.010
And I had a wonderful pup that was

00:14:43.010 --> 00:14:46.050
my companion. 

Kate:

When did Maddie pass on? 

Rachel:

00:14:46.050 --> 00:14:46.550
Maddie passed

00:14:47.170 --> 00:14:50.610
two years ago, February. And as I

00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:52.630
like to tell people, she was the healthiest

00:14:52.690 --> 00:14:53.190
relationship

00:14:53.555 --> 00:14:55.155
I've ever had with a being that I

00:14:55.155 --> 00:14:56.295
shared a bed with.

00:14:58.355 --> 00:15:00.595
She was my best pal and my best

00:15:00.595 --> 00:15:02.835
companion. However, we talk about these stories, and

00:15:02.835 --> 00:15:04.135
some of them sound horrific.

00:15:04.675 --> 00:15:07.235
And yet, we have been so blessed with

00:15:07.235 --> 00:15:08.755
so much, and I'm gonna use the P

00:15:08.755 --> 00:15:11.680
word, so much privilege in our lives to

00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:13.340
have grown up the way we did, to

00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:15.100
have been able to go to college, to

00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:17.900
have been able to have each other. We

00:15:17.900 --> 00:15:20.940
are so, so, so lucky. So even amidst

00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:22.160
all the horror stories,

00:15:23.175 --> 00:15:25.115
our horror stories, in the grand perspective,

00:15:25.655 --> 00:15:26.555
are not so horror story.

Kate:

00:15:27.015 --> 00:15:29.035
And you talk about gratitude a lot.

Rachel:

00:15:29.335 --> 00:15:31.835
I talk about gratitude a lot. I do.

Anita:

00:15:31.895 --> 00:15:34.475
We continue to sing together and make music

00:15:34.535 --> 00:15:37.275
together as well. I mean, we've done several

00:15:38.050 --> 00:15:42.210
temple services at various temples where I've written

00:15:42.210 --> 00:15:45.250
music for Shabbat services for the Village Temple

00:15:45.250 --> 00:15:46.690
here in New York, and I've brought it

00:15:46.690 --> 00:15:49.430
to Ohio. And we've made music together, and

00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:50.790
Holland joins us.

00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:52.065
But a

00:15:52.625 --> 00:15:54.865
shout-out to Lisa and Celia who are

00:15:54.865 --> 00:15:57.585
not on this interview: Lisa, who became a

00:15:57.585 --> 00:16:00.245
lawyer, which was one part of my dad's

00:16:00.785 --> 00:16:03.105
life that, thank God, she was the one

00:16:03.105 --> 00:16:05.260
who latched on to that. And she's the

00:16:05.260 --> 00:16:06.800
one who has provided grandsons,

00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:09.360
sons and grandsons.

00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:12.060
These are things that are foreign to us.

00:16:12.060 --> 00:16:15.840
And Celia plays every musical instrument ever made

00:16:16.060 --> 00:16:17.680
and has continued

00:16:18.595 --> 00:16:20.835
to astound us with what she does with

00:16:20.835 --> 00:16:24.115
music, and her beautiful late husband, Charlie, they

00:16:24.115 --> 00:16:26.675
helped me so much when I was doing

00:16:26.675 --> 00:16:28.595
my writing, they would do a lot of

00:16:28.595 --> 00:16:31.440
the technical stuff and make the music

00:16:31.900 --> 00:16:35.260
looking all digitized and beautiful. So it's a

00:16:35.260 --> 00:16:36.080
whole family

00:16:36.380 --> 00:16:39.500
of gifts and that we still Zoom together

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:41.600
and love each other and share our families

00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:42.880
with each other

00:16:43.305 --> 00:16:45.885
is a huge blessing. And also,

00:16:46.265 --> 00:16:48.605
I too feel that enormous gratitude

00:16:48.985 --> 00:16:51.065
for all of us. 

Rachel:

00:16:51.065 --> 00:16:52.285
I like to say that life is a pilgrimage,

00:16:53.305 --> 00:16:55.805
and our lives have each been these fascinating

00:16:55.865 --> 00:16:58.300
pilgrimages and where they've led us and where

00:16:58.300 --> 00:17:00.540
we've gone to and how sometimes our paths

00:17:00.540 --> 00:17:02.460
have crossed over each other and sometimes our

00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:04.560
paths have gone in completely different directions.

00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:08.400
But it's always this pilgrimage experience of life.

Iris:

00:17:09.100 --> 00:17:11.740
Yeah. We have one motto that I love

00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:14.635
to say that if you help one person,

00:17:15.255 --> 00:17:17.415
you help many like a ripple in a

00:17:17.415 --> 00:17:20.535
pond. So whether it's money or a gift

00:17:20.535 --> 00:17:23.195
of yourself or a song you've written,

00:17:23.975 --> 00:17:26.455
it goes on to spread out like a

00:17:26.455 --> 00:17:27.595
ripple in a pond.

Kate:

00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:29.280
That's beautiful.

00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:32.060
For more, please check out the other five

00:17:32.060 --> 00:17:34.300
excerpts, or if you have the time, the

00:17:34.300 --> 00:17:36.160
full hour-plus episode.

00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:38.400
It's quite an extraordinary

00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:39.200
conversation.

00:17:40.220 --> 00:17:42.800
Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation.