The Story of this New York City Performer Begins with a Role Model in a Leopard Skin

Anita Hollander, a multi-talented performer and advocate, says she was born to be a performer, following in the footsteps (and footlights) of her grandmother. In this excerpt from a longer conversation, Anita talks about her performing career, which began when she was 8 years old.
Anita also is a passionate advocate for performers with disabilities, and she is one herself. While still in college, she was diagnosed with cancer in her leg and eventually had to have the leg amputated. That didn't stop her from returning to the stage, however. This month, Anita will receive the Harold Russell Award as part of the Media Access Awards in Hollywood. To learn more about Anita, please visit her website. Also, you can go to YouTube to watch "Still Standing," her first one-woman cabaret show, and her second one, "Spectacular Falls." Anita also mentions "From Where I Sit," and you'll find that video on YouTube as well. 

This episode is the second excerpt from an extraordinarily candid conversation with Anita's mother, philanthropist and author Iris November and one of Anita's sisters, the Rev. Rachel Hollander, also a performer and an author. All three are accomplished and delightful.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Audible, iHeart and Spotify.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:35 Anita's role model
• 2:00 At 8, her career starts
• 3:29 A life-changing diagnosis
• 6:08 Becoming an advocate
• 8:04 Trailblazing and "Still Standing"
• 9:47 "From Where I Sit"
• 10:55 Mom weighs in
• 11:55 Anita's shows, and Rachel's participation
• 14:28 A "Woman of Courage"
• 17:44 Closing remarks

Transcript

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Hello, I'm Kate Jones here with another excerpt

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from a recent interview that I did with

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philanthropist

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and author Iris November,

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and two of her four daughters, the Rev.

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Rachel Hollander,

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also an author,

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and Anita Hollander,

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an actress, composer,

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director,

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and teacher who lives in New York City

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and has worked throughout Europe, Asia, Russia and

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America.

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In this episode,

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we're focusing on Anita,

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her career,

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her advocacy work and the challenges of being

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a performer with a disability.

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So, Anita, how did you make it to

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New York City, and what inspired you to

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become a multi-talented

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performer and an advocate too? I want to make

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sure we cover that.

Anita:

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Well, that seems to go right along with

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my life, but I was born into this.

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I was born with the performing gene because

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my grandmother, Mom's mom,

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Celeste Corrine Flaxman,

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was a vaudeville

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dancer.

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She danced on the vaudeville circuits,

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toured around, and we have great pictures. There's

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one of her leaning against the proscenium wearing

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a leopard skin and nothing else. 

Iris:

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That was a long time ago.

Anita:

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Way, long ago! 

Kate:

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I would like to see that. We need a picture of that. 

Anita:

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A word description: She was amazing. And she

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died of cancer

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six years before I was born.

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And I came into the world screaming and

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screamed for one year solid.

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At the end of which I jumped out

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of my crib and

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a little concussion, which of course made me

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go into show business because you have to

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have definitely a problem with your brain to

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go into show business. I was born with

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a lot of her qualities and her face.

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I turned 40 and my mom was looking

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at me going, "You look exactly like my

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mom. You look exactly like my mom." I

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definitely am her.

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So I have no choice. I'm going into

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show business.

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And, fortunately,

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Mom

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supported that. Dad supported that with taking me

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to an audition when I was 8 years

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old, and I got my first professional job

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in "The Sound of Music" in Cleveland at

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Musicarnival. It was a professional theater. Wally

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Harper was conducting the orchestra who went on

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to be Barbara Cook's musical director. I mean,

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these were people whose names were from Broadway,

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and I was 8 years old. And I

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was understudying the part of Gretl,

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the youngest of the von Trapp children in

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"The Sound of Music."

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And the actress who played Gretl was generous

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enough to get German measles for three nights,

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and I got to go on. She was

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a very generous girl. And the show was

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so successful, they brought it back the next

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year, and I got my own role, which

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was Marta. I grew two inches and got

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to be the second daughter. Anyways, from then

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on,

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it was all theater,

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all music, all dance,

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all the time. My sisters and I all

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sang together at shopping malls and events and

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television. And growing up, we sang

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all the time. And

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Dad being a cantor at the synagogue and

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a big Broadway enthusiast and a performer at

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City Club shows, he was a ham. So

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we were all, we all

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were born into this, but I was definitely

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going to go into this as a career.

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I knew this, so I gained a resume

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over the years in Cleveland

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performing at all the theaters and, like, playing

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Martha Jefferson in "1776"

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when I was 16 years old. Anyways, at

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21

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at Carnegie Mellon University, I'm working on getting

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a degree in acting because I'd been singing

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all along, but I wanted more acting training.

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I was diagnosed with cancer

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in my leg.

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And six weeks after that surgery, I went

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back to school because I was not having

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it as far as not graduating with my

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class. So I graduated with my class the

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next year

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and went on summer stock and

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then went to Europe and studied at LAMDA,

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London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, and

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toured Europe with a company,

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came back

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and got a recurrence

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of the cancer in my leg while I

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was directing

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"Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living

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in Paris"

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in Boston. I came back from Europe,

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and I was living in Boston, getting a

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show up,

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directing it and performing in it, and my

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leg was hurting, and it was terrible. And

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then

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I found out I had to have my

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leg amputated.

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So I had my leg amputated,

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Mass General, went back to rehearsals two weeks

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later,

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staged the rest of the show on one

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leg and opened in the show four weeks

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after the amputation. My favorite story to tell,

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it's really

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amazing because I was lucky enough to have

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Grandma Celeste and Mom and Dad and all

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the people along the way in my life

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who believed

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that there was nothing that was ever gonna

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stop me. So I did open the show,

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did run the show, and there were a

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couple of features that came out about me

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doing that. And it helped me,

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and a few years later, I got a

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job teaching at NYU, which got me down

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to New York City, which was my endgame

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goal all my life. And I've been there

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since 1983,

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a year after the amputation.

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And what comes along with

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having cancer and first having a brace on

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my leg and touring Europe and then losing

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my leg and going on stage, What comes

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along with that is advocating

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because you are already an advocate when you

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walk on the stage on one leg or

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on an artificial leg or with a brace

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on you. You're automatically

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an advocate because you're saying,

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"If I could do this, you can do

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this." And, fortunately, the "Today" show did a

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nice

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piece about it in 1991

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after I'd gotten married, had a child,

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and doing this on one leg. And

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they were like, "We have to tell this

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story."

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So that helped a lot. I was opening

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for comics at the Improvisation

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Comedy Club on 44th Street by Times

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Square around the corner, opening for Robin Williams,

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Larry David,

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Ray Romano, all those great folks. And

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they put this out there on the "Today"

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show, which was great. So

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my way of giving back was that I

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could help others

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to get work in this industry. And there's

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no easy way to get work in this

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industry no matter what you are, no matter

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how many legs you have, no matter how

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absolutely gorgeous or talented or whatever you might

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be. It's still hard to get a job,

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but it's even harder if you have a

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disability. It's harder even to get into an

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audition.

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So I became the National Chair of Performers

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with Disabilities at SAG-AFTRA, which is Screen

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Actors Guild. And also I've served as a

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council member at Actors' Equity, which is the

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stage version of the union. And in each

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case,

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charting where we are

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in television,

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radio,

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theater,

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movies, all those things, and showing the industry

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that there's not enough about us out there.

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And there's not enough authentic representation.

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And now we've tripled our employment on TV.

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And some of us have gotten Oscars now

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and Tony Awards. And I mean, it's so

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much different than it was in 1980 when

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I started to, like, be this

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loud

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pioneer. I never hit anybody over the head.

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I do things gently.

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I always have a smile on my face.

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I'm not angry. I'm just saying

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to Hollywood producers, we can benefit from

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this both. So

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I'm not here to yell at you. I'm

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here to tell you,

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if you get more of us on TV

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or in a film, you're gonna have more

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sponsors, you're gonna have more backers, you're gonna

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have more audience.

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It's a win-win.

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And I do think I've learned all this

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from my mother, actually, because she's so good

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at letting people know that if you give

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to this hospital wing, this is a win-

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win because you may have a grandchild with

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autism and you're gonna need that. Or you

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may have a mom who has cancer, and

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you're gonna need that breast cancer wing, and

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you're gonna need this library and this nature

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center and this, you know, it totally goes

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through the family. It's not

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me being anything new. The only thing new

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about me was that — and critics have said,

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"She was obviously

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ahead of her time" — was nobody was going

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out on stage writing shows, writing musicals about

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having one leg. That was a new thing.

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And when I first introduced my first original show...

Kate:

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Was that "Still Standing"?

Anita:

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That was "Still Standing." Boy, you've done your

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research.

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I premiered it at a cabaret called Don't

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Tell Mama. It's on Theater Row on 

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46th Street. And

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everybody was like, "I don't know if this

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is the kind of show you wanna do

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in a cabaret." I had been showcasing

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the work of many writers because I was

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in the BMI workshop and the ASCAP workshop

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for writers because I write my own music.

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And they were like, "Hey, this is like

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a bridge too far. Who's gonna wanna come

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and see a show about cancer and losing

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a leg?" But, but it's very funny.

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At any rate, I had a following.

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And Sidney Myer, who was running

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Don't Tell Mama, said, "Hey, if it's you,

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I know we're gonna get an audience, and

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I don't know if it's gonna go well

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or not, but give it a try." Nowadays,

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every cabaret show you see

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has to do with the thing they went

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through, you know, the difficult thing they went

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through in life.

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And either they write it themselves or they're

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picking Broadway show tunes or show tunes that

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talk about going through something difficult.

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So when I've been reviewed more recently,

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the Boston Globe said, "Well, she obviously was

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ahead of her time. She's been doing this

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for a while." And it is true. It's

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hard to be a pioneer because by the

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time people notice that you were a pioneer,

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you're a lot older.

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But, fortunately,

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I'm still getting TV work and theater

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work, and I just came back from Alabama

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where I set the music of all of

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these writers with disabilities.

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I set them to music in a theater

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piece called "From Where I Sit."

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And

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these writers had never performed before, and I

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got them singing in three-part harmony. And

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I just had the best

00:10:06.470 --> 00:10:07.450
best time.

Kate:

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Is is that going to be stage show,

00:10:10.150 --> 00:10:11.990
or is that going to be a recorded

00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:13.875
show? What is that? 

Anita:

00:10:13.875 --> 00:10:16.375
A stage show that can be seen online if you look for,

00:10:16.755 --> 00:10:18.775
I think if you look at "From Where

00:10:18.915 --> 00:10:21.955
I Sit" and you just write Alabama. They

00:10:21.955 --> 00:10:24.675
did a video, two versions, so my mom

00:10:24.675 --> 00:10:26.515
could see it because she was in Cleveland.

Iris:

00:10:26.515 --> 00:10:28.675
I watched both of them, honey, and they

00:10:28.675 --> 00:10:29.160
were

00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.380
amazing. And I loved the participation

00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:35.740
of all the performers who had never performed

00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:36.780
before

00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:39.720
and suddenly found a weight lifted off of

00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.060
their shoulders. Some were in wheelchairs,

00:10:42.520 --> 00:10:43.500
some on crutches,

00:10:44.175 --> 00:10:46.915
and they were performing with such joy.

00:10:47.215 --> 00:10:49.635
That was the basic line of the show,

00:10:49.855 --> 00:10:52.195
Anita. There was so much joy

00:10:52.735 --> 00:10:53.635
in the performance,

00:10:54.495 --> 00:10:56.655
truly. I have to add one thing to

00:10:56.655 --> 00:10:57.875
my darling daughter's

00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:00.100
conversation here.

00:11:00.400 --> 00:11:02.240
Before she was in her teens, Dad and

00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.820
I took the four girls to New York

00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.480
mainly to show them well, we saw plays.

00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.720
We saw five plays in what four days?

Rachel and Anita:

00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.165
Four days. Two days. 

Iris:

00:11:13.165 --> 00:11:15.645
Oh, my God, we were crazy. And prices were a lot better,

00:11:15.645 --> 00:11:17.505
but at that time, it was still high

00:11:17.645 --> 00:11:20.305
priced. But we kept driving Anita

00:11:21.085 --> 00:11:23.105
down to the lower village

00:11:23.645 --> 00:11:27.450
where the laundry was hanging from the windows,

00:11:27.510 --> 00:11:30.150
from window to window, where there was garbage

00:11:30.150 --> 00:11:32.070
all over the streets, and we kept saying

00:11:32.070 --> 00:11:33.850
to each other, your dad and I,

00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:36.410
maybe we can talk her out of this.

00:11:37.110 --> 00:11:39.350
And by God, she kept saying, "Oh, this

00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:41.830
is so beautiful. Oh, my God, I love

00:11:41.830 --> 00:11:44.675
it here." We lost the battle totally.

Kate and Iris:

00:11:45.455 --> 00:11:46.755
Clearly. Clearly.

Anita:

00:11:48.175 --> 00:11:50.895
That's true, Mom. It was weird. The dirtiest

00:11:50.895 --> 00:11:53.055
city in the whole world, and I couldn't

00:11:53.055 --> 00:11:56.415
get enough of it. 

Kate:

00:11:56.415 --> 00:11:57.795
Is "Still Standing" also in recorded form?

Anita:

00:11:58.990 --> 00:12:01.390
Actually, there is a performance of it on

00:12:01.390 --> 00:12:03.150
YouTube. If you go on YouTube and you

00:12:03.150 --> 00:12:04.450
look up Anita Hollander,

00:12:04.990 --> 00:12:06.830
you can find a lot of those things.

00:12:06.830 --> 00:12:07.730
Also "Spectacular

00:12:08.110 --> 00:12:09.570
Falls," which is the second

00:12:09.950 --> 00:12:12.445
show I wrote. The first one, "Still Standing."

00:12:12.445 --> 00:12:13.025
Second show,

00:12:13.885 --> 00:12:16.445
"Spectacular Falls." The third one is going to

00:12:16.445 --> 00:12:17.805
be, and I'm working on it now, it's

00:12:17.805 --> 00:12:19.665
called "Balance: A Footnote."

00:12:20.285 --> 00:12:22.685
Balance-colon-a-footnote, which will be the

00:12:22.685 --> 00:12:25.170
end of the trilogy. But Rachel is such

00:12:25.170 --> 00:12:26.930
a big part of this. Not only

00:12:26.930 --> 00:12:29.570
is she mentioned in both of these shows

00:12:29.570 --> 00:12:30.710
and sung about,

00:12:31.090 --> 00:12:33.490
she's gone with me to perform this in

00:12:33.490 --> 00:12:34.630
many different cities

00:12:35.250 --> 00:12:37.670
because she does the sign language.

00:12:38.165 --> 00:12:40.325
And not just over on the side, she's

00:12:40.325 --> 00:12:42.965
with me. And on the song in "Still

00:12:42.965 --> 00:12:44.965
Standing called "Lazy Day," which is all about

00:12:44.965 --> 00:12:46.485
her coming to visit me while I was

00:12:46.485 --> 00:12:48.745
on chemo and radiation and everything,

00:12:49.285 --> 00:12:50.185
we switch

00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:53.370
parts. It's really very funny. 

Rachel:

It's very meta.

Anita:

00:12:53.890 --> 00:12:56.010
 It's very meta because my voice is coming 

00:12:56.010 --> 00:12:58.890
through on the soundtrack, but I'm being Rachel

00:12:58.890 --> 00:13:00.030
because Rachel was

00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:02.410
a goof burger. I mean, she was so

00:13:02.410 --> 00:13:04.185
great. She would come into town and I

00:13:04.185 --> 00:13:06.025
was like, aargh, she's got, "We're going to

00:13:06.025 --> 00:13:07.625
go to the movies. We're gonna have pizza."

00:13:07.625 --> 00:13:09.465
No. I can't eat pizza. "Yes, we're gonna

00:13:09.465 --> 00:13:11.965
eat." I mean, she was like my cheerleader,

00:13:12.665 --> 00:13:13.325
and we'd

00:13:13.705 --> 00:13:17.160
bop around Pittsburgh, and she would just really

00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:19.500
cheer me up. So I wrote this jazzy

00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:21.400
song about her. So the two of us

00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:22.300
are on stage

00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:23.360
being

00:13:23.800 --> 00:13:26.380
it's just totally crazy. I've had a children's

00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.440
choir for 28 years with whom I

00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.705
write songs. And at one point in "Spectacular

00:13:31.845 --> 00:13:34.005
Falls," we talk about people who fall through

00:13:34.005 --> 00:13:34.665
the cracks,

00:13:35.125 --> 00:13:38.325
and that's the immigrant people right now more

00:13:38.325 --> 00:13:40.965
than ever. But this was back in 2020

00:13:40.965 --> 00:13:43.270
or something, and it was the kids' idea

00:13:43.270 --> 00:13:46.070
to say "welcome" in 20 different languages. So

00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:47.830
everyone went home and found out where they

00:13:47.830 --> 00:13:50.010
come from. And we used all the languages.

00:13:50.150 --> 00:13:50.650
But

00:13:51.270 --> 00:13:53.110
I told Rachel at this point in the

00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:55.110
show, you sit down and relax. This is

00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:57.770
your little intermission and I will

00:13:58.375 --> 00:14:01.275
sign the show or interpret the show

00:14:02.215 --> 00:14:04.855
to the voices of my children's choir singing

00:14:04.855 --> 00:14:06.235
this song about immigrants.

00:14:06.695 --> 00:14:08.935
So I worked my butt off to learn

00:14:08.935 --> 00:14:10.795
from Rachel. I am studying

00:14:11.175 --> 00:14:13.175
ASL, but I'm never gonna be as good

00:14:13.175 --> 00:14:14.910
as she is. But I worked it out,

00:14:14.910 --> 00:14:16.590
and she corrected me when I had it

00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:17.970
wrong. And she made sure

00:14:18.350 --> 00:14:20.590
that I could just stop singing for a

00:14:20.590 --> 00:14:23.390
minute and sign and have the voices of

00:14:23.390 --> 00:14:26.050
the children. So Rachel's really such an integral

00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:27.570
part of all this stuff.

Rachel:

00:14:27.975 --> 00:14:29.975
I think it was when you were on

00:14:29.975 --> 00:14:31.355
Sally Jesse Rafael.

Anita and Rachel:

00:14:32.135 --> 00:14:33.835
Yeah. They dubbed her

00:14:34.455 --> 00:14:36.855
a "Woman of Courage." 

Anita:

00:14:36.855 --> 00:14:39.015
Oh, no, that was "Evening Magazine" in Boston. 

Rachel:

00:14:39.015 --> 00:14:41.450
And can I tell you what it's like to be not only

00:14:41.450 --> 00:14:43.930
in the family of, but the younger sibling

00:14:43.930 --> 00:14:44.430
of

00:14:44.890 --> 00:14:46.110
a "Woman of Courage?

Kate:

00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:47.710
Oh, do tell.

Rachel:

00:14:48.410 --> 00:14:50.650
Anita, you wanna talk about being a "Woman

00:14:50.650 --> 00:14:51.310
of Courage"?

Anita:

00:14:52.625 --> 00:14:54.885
Yeah. I never really loved that. I think

00:14:55.265 --> 00:14:57.265
maybe it actually was the "Today" show in

00:14:57.265 --> 00:14:58.405
1991,

00:14:58.465 --> 00:15:00.165
the day that we went into

00:15:00.945 --> 00:15:03.605
Iraq. There was an hour and 50 minutes

00:15:03.985 --> 00:15:06.220
of war stuff, and then they put me

00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:08.700
on the last 10 minutes. It was called

00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:11.340
People You Should Know, but they labeled the

00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:13.040
piece about me "Woman

00:15:13.420 --> 00:15:14.160
of Courage."

00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:15.440
And, honestly,

00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:18.620
that really didn't feel good to me. The

00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:18.684
old brave thing, inspiration, courage, all that stuff

00:15:18.684 --> 00:15:19.760
was a little much.

00:15:22.025 --> 00:15:24.425
Courage, all that stuff was a little much.

00:15:24.425 --> 00:15:26.665
But at any rate, at the end of

00:15:26.665 --> 00:15:28.745
the "Today" show story, they go back to

00:15:28.745 --> 00:15:32.365
Betty Friedan and Deborah Norville. And Betty

00:15:32.665 --> 00:15:34.640
says, "Yeah. She's wonderful. There there are things

00:15:34.640 --> 00:15:37.440
she can't do. She can't dance, but there

00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:38.960
are so many other things she can do."

00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.800
And Deborah, who was pregnant at the time,

00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:44.160
goes, "And I'm sure she'll do every one

00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:46.320
of those things." And that's how they ended

00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.100
the "Today" show with me. It's like,

00:15:49.085 --> 00:15:50.765
first of all, I could dance, and I

00:15:50.765 --> 00:15:52.845
was dancing. And Rachel will tell you. Rachel

00:15:52.845 --> 00:15:54.625
and I were in "Pump Boys and Dinettes" together.

Rachel:

00:15:54.685 --> 00:15:57.485
She tap dances better than me. On

00:15:57.485 --> 00:16:00.125
the artificial leg, she tap dances better than

00:16:00.125 --> 00:16:00.625
me.

Anita:

00:16:01.085 --> 00:16:02.605
And she was like, I can't do this.

00:16:02.605 --> 00:16:04.460
I'm going, I can do this. We're gonna

00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:06.460
both do this. And we did a little

00:16:06.460 --> 00:16:08.460
soft shoe. I mean, thanks to Mom, I

00:16:08.460 --> 00:16:10.000
was trained in tap, ballet,

00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:13.200
modern, jazz. I had all that training.

00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:16.060
So when the artificial leg came into the

00:16:16.060 --> 00:16:18.295
picture, I just used that. And then I

00:16:18.295 --> 00:16:20.615
also have danced with companies just on one

00:16:20.615 --> 00:16:22.555
leg. The big something-a-tron

00:16:23.175 --> 00:16:24.555
in Times Square,

00:16:25.415 --> 00:16:27.355
those big screens once had

00:16:27.815 --> 00:16:30.075
me from the waist down in this white,

00:16:30.215 --> 00:16:30.715
flowy

00:16:31.175 --> 00:16:33.690
skirt and my leg, just me on a

00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:35.850
pedestal for an hour dancing on one leg.

00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:36.910
And there I was,

00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:38.910
the Jumbotron

00:16:39.530 --> 00:16:40.750
in Times Square,

00:16:41.370 --> 00:16:44.110
my leg and my skirt and my foot.

00:16:44.330 --> 00:16:46.255
Like, that's me. That's me.

Rachel:

00:16:46.715 --> 00:16:48.335
It was the "Leg of Courage."

Anita and Rachel:

00:16:48.795 --> 00:16:50.815
The "Leg of Courage." "Leg of Courage."

Anita:

00:16:51.835 --> 00:16:54.075
So true. So true. Just one last thing,

00:16:54.075 --> 00:16:56.155
and I want Rachel to talk because she's

00:16:56.155 --> 00:16:58.795
incredibly extraordinary. Just that if you wanted to

00:16:58.795 --> 00:17:00.155
know any more about me, it would be

00:17:00.155 --> 00:17:01.890
anitahollander.com.

00:17:01.890 --> 00:17:03.970
And all of this stuff is in there.

00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:05.970
You can see anything you want, plus a

00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:06.870
great photo

00:17:07.490 --> 00:17:10.770
that Susan Rosenberg Jones, the photographer, took of

00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:11.910
me with my,

00:17:12.210 --> 00:17:15.170
with my biceps out and just standing on

00:17:15.170 --> 00:17:16.770
one leg on the pier of the Hudson

00:17:16.770 --> 00:17:19.305
River. I love the picture. That's the cover

00:17:19.305 --> 00:17:21.865
of the website. So anitahollander.com.

Kate:

00:17:21.865 --> 00:17:25.485
Okay. Well, what the website doesn't capture

00:17:25.785 --> 00:17:28.665
so much is your sense of humor and

00:17:28.665 --> 00:17:31.790
the lightness that comes with this, and the

00:17:31.790 --> 00:17:34.530
passion that you have for performing and advocacy

00:17:34.670 --> 00:17:37.410
and everything that you do, directing, etcetera.

00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:40.670
And that is what's so wonderful about hearing

00:17:40.670 --> 00:17:41.410
you speak.

00:17:42.315 --> 00:17:44.015
Thank you. Thank you.

Kate:

00:17:44.875 --> 00:17:47.115
For more, please check out the other five

00:17:47.115 --> 00:17:49.515
excerpts, or if you have the time, the

00:17:49.515 --> 00:17:50.415
full episode.

00:17:51.035 --> 00:17:53.775
It's quite an extraordinary conversation.

00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:57.769
Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation.