Everyday Creation

The Pleasures of Giving, Schnorring, and Saying Goodnight to the 'Shoebox'

• Kate Jones • Season 2 • Episode 122

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This is the first of six excerpts from an extraordinarily candid conversation with philanthropist and author Iris November and two of her daughters: the Rev. Rachel Hollander, also an author, and Anita Hollander, an actress and composer. All three are accomplished and delightful. 

This episode focuses primarily on Iris' book "Goodnight, Shoebox," designed to help children get to know people who don't live close to them. It can be useful for adults with memory issues as well. The book is available on Amazon with three different titles: "Goodnight, Shoebox," "Laila tov, Shoebox" and "Buenas Noches, Shoebox." 

We also touch upon other topics including "The Fine Art of Schnorring: The A to Z's of Fund Raising and Philanthropy," which Iris wrote with Mort November, her second husband who has since passed on. And, just to be clear, these 15 minutes or so represent just the tip of the full episode, in which my guests talk about subjects such as love and loss, grief and gratitude with honesty and good humor. Please join us for more excerpts as they're published or, if you have the time, check out the entire interview, Episode 121.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Audible, iHeart and Spotify.

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Hello, I'm Kate Jones here with an excerpt

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from a recent interview that I did with

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philanthropist

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and author Iris November

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and two of her four daughters:

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the Rev. Rachel Hollander,

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also an author, and Anita Hollander,

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an actress and composer.

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In this short episode,

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we'll focus primarily on Iris' latest book, which

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was inspired by Anita and her daughter,

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Holland

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Rebekah Hamilton.

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Rachel wrote a blurb for this memoir activity

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book describing it as "both a love letter

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from a great-grandmother

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as well as a creative way of preserving

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memories,"

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something to "cherish and share as a legacy

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for years to come."

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We'll begin with Rachel elaborating

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on her description

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of "Goodnight,

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Shoebox."

Rachel:

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It's also

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a really great tool for anyone dealing with

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any kind of brain injury

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or anyone who's nonverbal,

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anyone with any kind

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of inability to retain information.

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So people dealing with Alzheimer's, dementia,

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on the spectrum,

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anyone who needs help remembering

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and keeping track of family. So it's a

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way to stay connected in all different ways. 

Kate:

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That's marvelous. And it

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comes in three different editions.

Iris:

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Yes, it does.

Kate:

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Please tell us about that, Iris. 

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I would love to tell you about that. The book

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started out as "Goodnight,

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Shoebox,"

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and then we decided

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that we would give it another title,

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and it was "Laila tov, Shoebox," which is

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"goodnight, sweet dreams"

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in Hebrew.

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And then not to ignore our wonderful Hispanic

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friends, we have

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"Buenas Noches, Shoebox." And what it really is is

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a chance

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at a calm part of the evening

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for a child or an adult

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to say goodnight

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to someone in their family,

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for people who are far away, maybe their

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families don't live near them. You put a

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photograph on each page.

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You say "goodnight,

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Bubbe,"

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"goodnight, cousin,

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Rachel,"

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or "goodnight, puppy dog" or "goodnight, doctor."

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And this brings their family and their village

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into their evening

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program.

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And it's a very sweet way to say

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goodnight. It all happened...

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May I tell the story? 

Kate:

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Well, of course, and, Anita, you need to jump in too.

Iris:

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Yeah, she will.

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When my first great-grandchild was born

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pardon me, my first grandchild,

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Holland Rebekah,

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she lived in New York City, and all

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the rest of the family was all over

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the country.

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So Anita would take out a shoebox, put

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all her photographs in, and each night, she'd

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take out a photograph

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and say, "Say goodnight to Bubbe,

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say goodnight to Nanny, say goodnight to Papa,"

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and show the photograph to Holland. And Holland

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would repeat,

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in her own way, "goodnight, Papa, goodnight, Nanny."

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And

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I realized

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years later, now this wonderful Holland Rebekah

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is the mother of Ashia Iris —

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don't you love that? 

Kate:

Oh, yes.  

Iris:

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And she's having her second birthday. And I must

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say,

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Ashia and I are 90 years and one

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day apart.

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She was born one day after my 90th

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birthday,

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so we are always tied together,

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and I adore her. Of course, I adore

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all my great-grandchildren.

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Anyhow...

Kate:

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And your children. 

Iris:

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Oh, if you insist, yes.

Rachel:

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We're not as cute as the great-grands.

Iris:

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Oh, God, no. No one's as cute as

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the great-grandchildren.

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And there are now seven of them, right?

Rachel:

Yeah. 

Iris:

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We've got one on the

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way in October.

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Another one. Anyhow, that was the idea that

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hit me. It's funny, it took me nine

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months to make this book to come to

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fruition. It was like I birthed the book,

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the first book, "Goodnight, Shoebox."

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And, may I say that it's on Amazon

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under either Iris November

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or "Goodnight,

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Shoebox,"

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"Laila tov, Shoebox" or

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"Buenos Noches, Shoebox."

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Enjoy.

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It's really wonderful.

Kate:

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So, Anita, how did you come up with

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this? What inspired you?

Anita:

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I care about legacy. I care a lot

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about legacy,

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and maybe because I almost died of cancer

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at 21. When you realize at a young

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age that you may not be around for

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very long, maybe that's when you start to

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think, I better leave something

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for others. And, of course, Mom and Dad

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were perfect examples of people who are leaving

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behind things that are for other people

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to benefit by. So we used to call

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my mom

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Grandma Camera,

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because whenever she'd visit Holland,

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her face was behind a camera.

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She was taking pictures, and we're lucky to

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have those pictures.

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But she was always taking pictures, so

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Grandma Camera was her name. So every night,

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you know, we'd have these great pictures that

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Mom would give us after a visit or

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whatever.

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And we'd go through pictures, and

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we would talk about

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who these people are. Really, it is a great

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tool because now I noticed my daughter's been

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doing that with her daughter. And we have

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this little video

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of her

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looking at the holiday card that has all

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of our pictures on it, and she speaks

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to each one. And then she turned to

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her mother and went, "Hi."

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Because she had said hello to everybody, and

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now she was saying hello to her mom.

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So it really was moving to me that

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Mom

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dedicated the book to us because

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it really hadn't dawned on me

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how significant

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it is to have a book full

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of these

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pictures.

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And I think what Rachel said is so

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valuable because when someone has dementia, Alzheimer's, whatever,

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is that you sit with them and they're

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looking at the pictures.

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"This is your daughter. This is your whatever."

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It's a tool as much as it is

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a delightful

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thing. I mean, when we grew up, Mom

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taught us how to do scrapbooks and all

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that stuff. And

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I finally had to dismantle all the old

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scrapbooks and then digitize everything. And I know

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she's going through them all too, but it's

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more than just a book of pictures.

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It's really valuable. And with the advent of

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social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, it's become even

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more of a thing

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that we

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connect with each other that way. So thanks, Mom!

Iris:

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You're welcome.

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One other thing that I loved about this

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is that Holland, as a baby, didn't know

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me

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except through my pictures.

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Yet when they would arrive at the airport

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and she'd come running,

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she would scream,

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"Grandma, Grandma,"

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because she knew me from the pictures in

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the shoebox. And, oh my god, I was

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a blob on the floor.


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In this day and age, as when Anita

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said, we have Facebook and all of those

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things, but you don't hold those in your

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hand.

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And I swear there's a gut reaction

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when you have a photograph

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in your hand or in the book, and

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you talk about it, and it lasts because

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in Facebook, it blips away fast. 

Kate:

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There's something about

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holding something. It's in your hand. It becomes

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part of your body,

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and it just has more impact.

Iris:

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It does. And it's visceral. That's what

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I call it. We all found that to

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be true and we wanted to share it

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with everybody else. I couldn't believe I did

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this book. Hey, guys, I'm 92,

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okay?

Kate:

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Oh, yeah. But you act like a 60-

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year-old and you look like a 65-year-old.

Iris:

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Yeah. Thanks a lot, guys.

Anita:

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Genes, really good genes. 

Kate:

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Good genes for sure. No, seriously. You are 

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the youngest 90-something-

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year-old on the planet, I think. 

Iris:

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Yeah, and the youngest one I know. 

Rachel:

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My mom taught me a wise lesson.

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People tend to think that I'm younger than

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I am.

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And I always say, my mom told me

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if you act immature and dress like a

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slob, no one will know how old you

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are.

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And I have stood by that. 

Iris:

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Yes, you have. Yes. 

Kate:

Good advice.

Iris:

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She listens to her mother. I've

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always also said, ask people when they want

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to know how old you are, say, "How old

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do you think I am?" And with Rachel,

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they always come up with 20 years younger,

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and her answer is, "Well, I'm around there."

Kate:

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Close enough. Close enough.

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Anything else you want to say about "Goodnight,

00:08:51.415 --> 00:08:51.915
Shoebox"?

Iris:

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It fits nicely in your hands.

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The colors are wonderful,

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and I really would like more people to

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realize its benefits. Again, as what we were

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saying, with people with aging brains.

00:09:06.655 --> 00:09:09.315
It's really hard, and I'm in that area

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now. I watch my friends having issues,

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and people are beginning to recognize that it's

00:09:15.055 --> 00:09:17.315
useful from zero to 99.

Anita:

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People may not understand that the idea is

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that

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you put the pictures here so you say

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goodnight to each one as you go by

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their pictures. It is as much a tool

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as it is delightful and pretty and purple,

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my favorite color. 

Kate:

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Also, it's paper bound, and the cover has a nice feel to it.

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And the book itself is the shoebox.

Iris:

00:09:42.615 --> 00:09:43.115
Exactly.

Kate:

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It takes the place of a shoebox. And that is

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so cool. So it's still the whole spirit

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of what

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Holland did. And now it's in this convenient

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little, you know, package.

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It's just absolutely

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wonderful.

Iris:

00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:01.340
Thank you. 

Kate:

00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:04.125
Want to talk briefly about your other book while we're at it? 

Iris:

00:10:04.125 --> 00:10:05.665
Sure. Back in 2011,

00:10:05.885 --> 00:10:08.385
my husband, my late husband, Mort, and I,

00:10:08.605 --> 00:10:09.425
were philanthropists.

00:10:09.805 --> 00:10:12.305
I've told people this so many times.

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Giving while you're around to see the benefit

00:10:16.845 --> 00:10:17.825
of your gift

00:10:18.130 --> 00:10:19.910
is the win-win situation.

00:10:20.770 --> 00:10:23.830
Don't wait and leave it all in your

00:10:24.370 --> 00:10:27.170
trust or whatever you call those things for

00:10:27.170 --> 00:10:30.135
after you're gone, and then people inherit it,

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and you haven't shared in the joy of

00:10:32.855 --> 00:10:35.175
seeing all the good that the money can

00:10:35.175 --> 00:10:36.715
do. So if you have a dollar,

00:10:37.335 --> 00:10:39.735
give a dollar. If you have more, give

00:10:39.735 --> 00:10:40.235
more.

00:10:40.695 --> 00:10:41.195
But

00:10:41.575 --> 00:10:44.330
watch what happens when you fund, and you

00:10:44.330 --> 00:10:46.890
can fund something for $100 or a

00:10:46.890 --> 00:10:49.610
million dollars. Anybody wanna share with me a

00:10:49.610 --> 00:10:50.510
million dollars?

00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:53.450
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's

00:10:53.450 --> 00:10:54.910
a double win-win,

00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:57.050
and that's what we've done. So the book

00:10:57.050 --> 00:10:58.730
grew out of that. It's called "The Fine

00:10:58.730 --> 00:10:59.230
Art

00:10:59.755 --> 00:11:00.335
of Schnorring,"

00:11:01.035 --> 00:11:03.375
which is the Yiddish word for begging.

00:11:03.915 --> 00:11:06.075
And this is begging raised to a high

00:11:06.075 --> 00:11:07.055
level because

00:11:07.995 --> 00:11:10.735
you beg for, you ask for items,

00:11:11.115 --> 00:11:14.155
you give the items away, and people are

00:11:14.155 --> 00:11:16.010
thrilled to receive them.

00:11:16.310 --> 00:11:18.470
And, it's a very sweet little book. It's funny.

Kate:

00:11:18.470 --> 00:11:21.930
It is. 

Iris:

00:11:22.470 --> 00:11:24.410
And it takes philanthropy to a different level.

00:11:24.790 --> 00:11:26.890
And we had so much fun with it.

00:11:27.270 --> 00:11:29.510
It's in a lot of offices where people

00:11:29.510 --> 00:11:30.010
are,

00:11:30.685 --> 00:11:32.305
what do you call them, fundraisers?

Rachel:

00:11:32.685 --> 00:11:35.025
Development. 

Iris:

00:11:35.645 --> 00:11:36.145
That's the word I'm looking for, development people.

00:11:36.605 --> 00:11:38.765
And they show it to their clients, and

00:11:38.765 --> 00:11:40.945
they laugh about it because it's silly.

00:11:41.405 --> 00:11:43.645
But it's also got a message, and that

00:11:43.645 --> 00:11:44.145
is

00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:47.040
when you ask for something

00:11:47.420 --> 00:11:49.100
and they can't give it to you, you

00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:51.120
say thank you for listening.

00:11:52.060 --> 00:11:52.560
Because

00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.700
a year later, they'll come back to you

00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:57.260
and say, "Remember when you needed some money

00:11:57.260 --> 00:11:59.200
for that? Well, now I have some money.

00:11:59.315 --> 00:12:01.395
I'd like to give it to you." You

00:12:01.395 --> 00:12:03.475
can't lose when you take it to that

00:12:03.475 --> 00:12:04.295
fine level.

Kate:

00:12:04.835 --> 00:12:07.955
You're kind, and you spread that kindness. 

Iris:

00:12:07.955 --> 00:12:11.075
Yeah. That's exactly right. It's kindness. 

Rachel:

00:12:11.075 --> 00:12:13.175
Can I also add that it's not just money? Because

00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:14.520
back in the day,

00:12:15.060 --> 00:12:17.140
my mom and Mort used to put these

00:12:17.140 --> 00:12:18.280
backpacks together.

00:12:18.740 --> 00:12:20.420
A school would have a contest, I guess,

00:12:20.420 --> 00:12:22.500
and the kids that would win were going

00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:23.240
to Greenfield Village. 

Iris:

00:12:23.620 --> 00:12:26.180
That's right. We sent groups out every year.

Rachel:

00:12:26.180 --> 00:12:27.700
And they'd be on this big bus,

00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:29.515
and they would get this backpack, and

00:12:29.515 --> 00:12:32.155
it would have little notebooks and pencils and

00:12:32.155 --> 00:12:34.735
maybe a yo-yo and a kazoo.

00:12:35.275 --> 00:12:38.075
Whatever they could schnorr... 

Iris

Yes. 

Rachel:

00:12:38.075 --> 00:12:40.395
Would go into this backpack. And so it's not just, you

00:12:40.395 --> 00:12:42.555
know, give me your money. It was, "Hey,

00:12:42.555 --> 00:12:44.255
can you give me 50 notepads

00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.960
for this kids' thing?" Absolutely. We get a

00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.800
package of notepads. "Can you give me some

00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:52.080
colored pencils?" Sure. And these backpacks would just

00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.620
be full of goodies,

00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:55.440
and these kids would get on the bus

00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.705
and have entertainment for three hours. 

Kate:

00:12:58.705 --> 00:13:01.525
That is terrific. 

Iris:

00:13:01.665 --> 00:13:02.805
Yeah. And they'd be happy. We even schnorred suitcases

00:13:03.185 --> 00:13:06.405
for them one time. And sleeping bags, we

00:13:06.465 --> 00:13:09.285
schnorred that from a department store in Chautauqua,

00:13:09.345 --> 00:13:10.485
New York, actually.

00:13:11.265 --> 00:13:13.365
We never stopped schnorring. It was

00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:16.100
sort of embarrassing, but in a nice way,

00:13:16.100 --> 00:13:16.760
you know?

Kate:

00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:19.800
Well, you're good at it. 

Iris:

00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:20.520
Yeah. You smile a lot.

Anita:

00:13:22.340 --> 00:13:24.280
I could even take it a step further.

00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:27.000
We live in subsidized housing for performing artists,

00:13:27.095 --> 00:13:29.595
three blocks from Times Square. We're very lucky.

00:13:29.815 --> 00:13:31.575
And in order to give back, we don't

00:13:31.575 --> 00:13:32.075
always

00:13:32.695 --> 00:13:35.495
have money because an artist's income goes up

00:13:35.495 --> 00:13:37.335
and down and up and down. And you're

00:13:37.335 --> 00:13:38.855
never sure if you have money now you

00:13:38.855 --> 00:13:40.860
will have it next month. So I started

00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:42.780
doing something a year ago, which is based

00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:44.940
on Mom and Mort. People would say, "Do

00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.040
you have anything to offer for this auction?"

00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:49.180
And I was like, you know, well, I

00:13:49.180 --> 00:13:50.880
could write somebody a song.

00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:53.500
And it turned out people wanted a song.

Kate:

00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:54.720
Oh my gosh, yes.

Anita:

00:13:55.415 --> 00:13:57.735
$15,000 to a temple, to a

00:13:57.735 --> 00:13:58.235
synagogue

00:13:58.935 --> 00:14:01.815
because three different people wanted a song. And

00:14:01.815 --> 00:14:03.575
when they went for the bidding, they were

00:14:03.575 --> 00:14:04.855
up to $5,000

00:14:04.855 --> 00:14:06.635
Each of these couples paid

00:14:06.935 --> 00:14:07.895
$5,000

00:14:07.895 --> 00:14:09.610
and I wrote them a song. And it

00:14:09.610 --> 00:14:11.530
was great because I knew these people, so

00:14:11.530 --> 00:14:13.770
I wrote it about them. And it was

00:14:13.770 --> 00:14:14.270
really

00:14:14.970 --> 00:14:17.630
so exciting. So exciting that three months later,

00:14:17.690 --> 00:14:20.090
for my high school reunion, Shaker

00:14:20.090 --> 00:14:22.010
Heights High School, they said, "Do you have

00:14:22.010 --> 00:14:23.690
anything for the auction?" And I'm like, you

00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:25.070
know, I can't afford to

00:14:25.665 --> 00:14:28.945
donate Broadway tickets because if you've noticed, the

00:14:28.945 --> 00:14:31.265
price of Broadway tickets would never work. I

00:14:31.265 --> 00:14:32.785
mean, it's, like, way over the roof for

00:14:32.785 --> 00:14:34.005
now. But

00:14:34.465 --> 00:14:36.305
I said I could write somebody a song.

00:14:36.305 --> 00:14:36.805
And

00:14:37.985 --> 00:14:39.905
one couple took me up on it, and

00:14:39.905 --> 00:14:40.645
they paid

00:14:41.230 --> 00:14:43.710
a good amount of money for me to

00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:46.030
write them a song. The husband had gone

00:14:46.030 --> 00:14:47.390
to school with me, but not the wife,

00:14:47.390 --> 00:14:48.830
so we talked and I wrote them a

00:14:48.830 --> 00:14:49.330
song.

00:14:49.790 --> 00:14:52.270
Nine months later, I got these flowers. I

00:14:52.270 --> 00:14:54.225
was like, what are these? "Well, we're still

00:14:54.225 --> 00:14:56.625
singing that song that you wrote for

00:14:56.625 --> 00:14:59.505
us." And so I was able to give

00:14:59.505 --> 00:15:00.965
money to my school

00:15:01.505 --> 00:15:04.145
by writing somebody a song. Mom and Mort

00:15:04.145 --> 00:15:06.305
and my dad too. I mean, they all

00:15:06.305 --> 00:15:08.725
sort of put forward this idea of legacy.

00:15:08.865 --> 00:15:09.685
Leave something.

00:15:10.280 --> 00:15:11.740
Whatever you have to give,

00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.060
give it to somebody, and then

00:15:14.520 --> 00:15:17.100
it helps somebody else and all that.

Kate:

00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.040
For more, please check out the other five

00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:22.440
excerpts or, if you have the time, the

00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.260
full episode.

00:15:24.013 --> 00:15:26.592
It's quite an extraordinary conversation.

00:15:27.773 --> 00:15:30.592
Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation.

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Kate Jones

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