With a Delightful Dash of Chutzpah, 3 Remarkable Women Tell Stories of Love, Loss and Legacy

Losing a loved one and losing a leg; picking up the pieces of a fractured life; creating beautiful things that serve others. These are only a few of the themes that emerged from this extraordinarily candid (and often funny) conversation with three members of a talented and accomplished family. 

In this episode, you'll hear from:
- Iris November, a philanthropist and former librarian with two books to her name: "The Fine Art of Schnorring: The A to Z's of Fundraising and Philanthropy" and "Goodnight, Shoebox." The latter, available on Amazon, is a memoir activity scrapbook written for kids and also quite useful for adults who have memory issues.
- Daughter Anita Hollander, a multi-talented performer who has dealt with cancer and a subsequent leg amputation. A disability advocate in the entertainment industry,  Anita will receive the Harold Russell Award this October as part of the Media Access Awards in Hollywood.
- Iris' youngest daughter, Rachel Hollander, a minister, writer and performer who is skilled in American Sign Language. Rachel also is the author of "From There to Here: An Insider's Guide to Navigating the Darkness," a captivating book about living with depression. And she has a great podcast that you can access from her website. I recommend the specific show about Maddie, her late canine companion. It's mystical and quite lovely. Also on Rachel's website, you can buy her book and find out about her spiritual center, SpiritsHome. 

This episode begins with the four of us talking about "Goodnight, Shoebox" and continues with Iris, Anita and Rachel's personal stories and what they went through as a family. It ends with Anita singing an original song, "Beyond," inspired by some words that her father had jotted down on a piece of paper. His note was about the importance of leaving something behind to benefit future generations. Family members found the note while going through his papers after he had a fatal heart attack 50 years ago. The lyrics to Anita's beautiful song are at the end of this episode's transcript.

To honor the memory of Bernard (Bud) Hollander, a lawyer, Iris set up an award to be given to a law school student who exemplifies her husband's unwavering commitment to public service. It first was presented in May 2025 and thereafter will be an annual award. To hear a professionally recorded version of "Beyond," go here. While we're on the subject of Anita's performances, you can go to YouTube to watch "Still Standing," her first one-woman cabaret show, and her second one, "Spectacular Falls," also on YouTube. (The latter video doesn't begin right away. The introduction is about 3 minutes in, and Anita comes onstage near the 7-minute mark.) In both videos, you'll see Rachel's expressive ASL interpretation. Anita also mentions "From Where I Sit," and you'll find that video on YouTube as well. For more about Anita, please visit her website.

We also covered a couple of other topics: Iris' knitting group, which makes items that the members give away to help others, and the Statue of Liberty Club, which Iris founded in 1991. She has donated her collection of Statues of Liberty to the Strong National Museum of Play in Rochester, N.Y.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Audible, iHeart and Spotify.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:34 "Goodnight, Shoebox"
• 6:47 "Grandma Camera" and more
• 11:46 "Schnorring" adventures
• 15:08 The gift of a song
• 17:05 Anita, born with the performing gene
• 20:03 Cancer didn't stop her
• 21:46 A pioneer and an advocate
• 24:52 "Still Standing"
• 26:22 "From Where I Sit" and NYC tales
• 30:00 Children's choir and "Spectacular Falls"
• 31:03 A "Woman of Courage"
• 35:05 Rachel: Living with depression
• 39:06 The worst roommate ever
• 39:23 "From There to Here"
• 44:33 We live with a lot
• 45:07 Loss, choice and comfort
• 54:25 Grappling with the aftermath of loss
• 57:43 Journaling helps
• 1:01:49 Fierce and swearing like a sailor
• 1:06:51 2 "Sound of Music" stories
• 1:07:45 Rejection, gratitude and giving
• 1:11:27 Yarn Over Beachwood
• 1:12:48 Statue of Liberty Club
• 1:13:32 SpiritsHome
• 1:14:09 Knitting with love, part 2
• 1:14:48 "Beyond," the story and the song

Transcript

Kate:

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Hello, I'm Kate Jones here with a recent

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interview that I did with three creative and

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accomplished women who experienced the kind of loss

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that can crush the spirit.

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But that didn't happen.

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Instead,

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they are good-humored and joy-filled creators

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who share a passion for being of service

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to others.

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Iris November

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is a philanthropist

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and enthusiastic

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volunteer.

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A former librarian,

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Iris is the co-author of "The Fine Art

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of Schnorring: The

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A to Z's of Fundraising

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and Philanthropy."

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Plus, this year,

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she published "Goodnight, Shoebox,"

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a memoir

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activity scrapbook

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that can help kids get to know relatives

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who live far away from them.

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The inspiration

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for Iris' book came from her daughter Anita

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Hollander

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and Iris' first grandchild,

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Holland

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Rebecca

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Hamilton.

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Anita Hollander, Holland's mom,

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is an actress,

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composer,

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director and teacher

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who has worked throughout Europe, Asia, Russia and

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America.

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She lives in New York City and is

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joining us on Zoom.

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Another one of Iris' daughters,

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Rachel Hollander,

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is a minister, speaker,

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writer, teacher and performer.

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Her book, "From There to Here:

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An Insider's Guide to Navigating the Darkness,"

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came out in 2021.

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It is a captivating

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story about living with depression.

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I think you'll enjoy their incredible

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stories.

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Before we launch into them, however,

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please know that there are two other

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creative and accomplished members of the Hollander family:

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Celia Hollander Lewis,

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a musician, singer and music therapist,

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and Lisa Hollander,

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a lawyer and also a nanny to her

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five grandchildren.

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One of these days, it would be so

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nice to interview them too.

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I also want to mention that Rachel Hollander

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wrote a blurb for the back cover of

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her mom's book.

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She described "Goodnight, Shoebox"

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as both a love letter from a great-

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grandmother

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as well as a creative way of preserving

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memories,

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something to cherish and share as a legacy

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for years to come.

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We'll begin with Rachel elaborating on her description

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of "Goodnight, Shoebox."

Rachel:

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It's also

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a really great tool for anyone dealing with

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any kind of brain injury

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or anyone who's nonverbal,

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anyone with any kind

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of inability to retain information.

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So people dealing with Alzheimer's, dementia,

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on the spectrum,

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anyone who needs help

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remembering

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and keeping track of family.

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So it's a way to

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stay connected in all different ways.

Kate:

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That's marvelous. And it

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comes in three different editions.

Iris:

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Yes, it does.

Kate:

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Please tell us about that, Iris. 

Iris:

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I would love to tell you about that. The book

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started out as "Goodnight,

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Shoebox."

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And then we decided

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that we would give it another title,

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and it was "Laila tov, Shoebox," which is

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goodnight,

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sweet dreams

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in Hebrew.

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And then, not to ignore our wonderful Hispanic

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friends, we have "Buenos Noches,

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Shoebox." And what it really is, is

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a chance

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at a calm part of the evening

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for a child or an adult

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to say goodnight

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to someone in their family.

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For people who are far away, maybe their

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families don't live near them, you put a

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photograph on each page.

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You say, Goodnight,

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Bubbe,

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Goodnight, cousin

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Rachel,

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or Goodnight puppy dog, or Goodnight, doctor.

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And this brings their family and their village

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into their evening

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program,

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and it's a very sweet way to say

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goodnight. It all happened.

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May I tell the story? 

Kate:

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Well, of course. And, Anita, you need to jump in too.

Iris:

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Oh, she will.

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When my first great-grandchild was born,

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pardon me, my first grandchild,

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Holland Rebekah,

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she lived in New York City, and all

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the rest of the family was all over

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the country.

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So Anita would take out a shoebox, put

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all her photographs in,

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and each night she'd take out a photograph

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and say, "Say goodnight to Bubbe,

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say goodnight to Nanny, say goodnight to Papa,"

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and show the photograph to Holland. And Holland

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would repeat in her own way, "Goodnight,

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Papa. Goodnight, Nanny."

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And

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I realized

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years later, now this wonderful Holland Rebekah

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is the mother of Ashia Iris. Don't you love that?

Kate:

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 Oh, yes. 

Iris:

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And she's having her second birthday. And I must

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say,

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Ashia and I are 90 years and one

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day apart.

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She was born one day after my 90th

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birthday.

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So we are always tied together,

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and I adore her. Of course, I adore

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all my great-grandchildren.

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Anyhow ...

Kate:

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And your children. 

Iris:

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Oh, if you insist, yes.

Rachel:

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We're not as cute as the great-grands.

Iris:

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Oh, God. No. No one's as cute as

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the great-grandchildren.

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And there are now seven of them. Right?

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We've got one on the

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way in October.

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Another one. Anyhow, that was the idea that

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hit me. It's funny. It took me nine

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months to make this book to come to

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fruition. It was like I birthed the book,

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the first book, "Goodnight, Shoebox."

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And may I say that it's on Amazon

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under either Iris November

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or "Goodnight,

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Shoebox,"

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Laila tov, Shoebox" or "Buenas Noches, Shoebox."

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Enjoy. It's really wonderful.

Kate:

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So, Anita, how did you come up with

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this? What inspired you?

Anita:

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I care about legacy. I care a lot

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about legacy.

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And maybe because I almost died of cancer

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at 21. When you realize at a young

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age that you may not be around for

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very long, maybe that's when you start to

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think, I better leave something

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for others. And of course, Mom and Dad

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were perfect examples of people who are leaving

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behind things that are for other people to

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benefit by. So

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we used to call my mom,

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Grandma Camera

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because whenever she'd visit Holland,

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her face was behind a camera.

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She was taking pictures, and we're lucky to

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have those pictures. But she was always taking

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pictures. So

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Grandma Camera was her name. So every night,

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you know, we'd have these great pictures that

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Mom would give us after a visit or

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whatever,

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and we'd go through pictures. And

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we would talk about

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who these people are. It really is a

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great tool because now I noticed my daughter's

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been doing that with her daughter, and we

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have this little video

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of her

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looking at the holiday card that has all

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of our pictures on it. And she speaks

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to each one. And then she turned to

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her mother

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and went, "Hi!"

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Because she had said hello to everybody and

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now she was saying hello to her mom.

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So it really was moving to me that

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Mom

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dedicated the book to us because

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it really hadn't dawned on me

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how significant

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it is to have a book full

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of these

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pictures.

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And I think what Rachel said is so

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valuable because when someone has dementia, Alzheimer's, whatever,

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is that you sit with them and they're

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looking at the pictures.

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This is your daughter. This is your whatever.

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It's a tool as much as it is

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a delightful

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thing. I mean, when we grew up, Mom

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taught us how to do scrapbooks and all

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that stuff. And

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I finally had to dismantle all the old

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scrapbooks and then digitize everything. And I know

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she's going through them all too. But it's

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more than just a book of pictures.

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It's really valuable. And with the advent of

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social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, it's become even

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more of a thing that we

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connect with each other that way. So thanks, Mom!

Iris:

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You're welcome!

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One other thing that I loved about this

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is that Holland, as a baby, didn't know

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me

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except through my pictures.

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Yet when they would arrive at the airport

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and she'd come running,

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she would scream,

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Grandma, Grandma,

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because she knew me from the pictures in

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the shoebox. And, oh my god, I was

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a blob on the floor.

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In this day and age when, as Anita

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said, we have Facebook and all of those

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things, but you don't hold those in your

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hand.

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And I swear there's a gut reaction

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when you have a photograph

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in your hand or in the book, and

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you talk about it, and it lasts because

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in Facebook, it blips away fast. 

Kate:

00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:19.190
There's something about

00:09:19.785 --> 00:09:21.865
holding something. It's in your hand. It becomes

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part of your body,

00:09:23.305 --> 00:09:26.425
and it just has more impact. 

Iris:

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It does, and it's visceral. That's what I call

00:09:28.825 --> 00:09:30.845
it. We all found that to be true,

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and we wanted to share it with everybody

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else. I couldn't believe I did this book.

00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:36.850
Hey, guys. I'm 92,

00:09:37.310 --> 00:09:37.810
okay?

Kate:

00:09:38.350 --> 00:09:40.590
Oh, yeah. But you act like a 60-

00:09:40.590 --> 00:09:43.870
year-old, and you look like a 65-year-old.

Iris:

00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.415
Yeah. Thanks a lot, guys.

Anita:

00:09:47.755 --> 00:09:50.975
Genes. Really good genes. 

Kate:

Good genes for sure.

00:09:51.035 --> 00:09:55.215
No, seriously. You are the youngest 90-

00:09:55.355 --> 00:09:57.900
year-old on the planet, I think. 

Iris:

00:09:57.900 --> 00:09:59.740
Yeah. And the youngest one I know. 

Rachel:

00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:01.120
My mom taught me a wise lesson.

00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:03.180
People tend to think that I'm younger than

00:10:03.180 --> 00:10:03.840
I am.

00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:06.320
And I always say my mom told me

00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:08.460
if you act immature and dress like a

00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:10.380
slob, no one will know how old you

00:10:10.380 --> 00:10:10.575
are.

00:10:11.455 --> 00:10:13.135
And I have stood by that. 

Iris:

00:10:13.135 --> 00:10:14.275
Yes, you have. 

Kate:

Excellent advice.

Iris:

00:10:15.215 --> 00:10:18.195
She listens to her mother.

00:10:18.335 --> 00:10:20.655
I've always also said, ask people when they

00:10:20.655 --> 00:10:22.415
want to know how old you are, say, "How

00:10:22.415 --> 00:10:24.420
old do you think I am?" And with

00:10:24.420 --> 00:10:26.980
Rachel, they always come up with 20 years

00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:27.480
younger,

00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:30.260
and her answer is, "Well, I'm around there."

Kate:

00:10:30.260 --> 00:10:32.200
Close enough. Close enough.

00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:36.600
Anything else you want to say about "Goodnight,

00:10:37.060 --> 00:10:37.560
Shoebox"?

Iris:

00:10:39.165 --> 00:10:41.265
It fits nicely in your hands.

00:10:41.645 --> 00:10:42.945
The colors are wonderful,

00:10:43.725 --> 00:10:46.525
and I really would like more people to

00:10:46.525 --> 00:10:49.245
realize its benefits. Again, as what we were

00:10:49.245 --> 00:10:51.825
saying, with people with aging brains.

00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:54.960
It's really hard, and I'm in that area

00:10:55.020 --> 00:10:57.760
now. I watch my friends having issues,

00:10:58.140 --> 00:11:00.700
and people are beginning to recognize that it's

00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:02.960
useful from zero to 99.

Anita:

00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:06.800
People may not understand that the idea is

00:11:07.420 --> 00:11:07.920
that

00:11:08.915 --> 00:11:10.675
you put the pictures here so you say

00:11:10.675 --> 00:11:12.995
goodnight to each one as you go by

00:11:12.995 --> 00:11:15.795
their pictures. It is as much a tool

00:11:15.795 --> 00:11:18.695
as it is delightful and pretty and purple, my favorite color.

Kate:

00:11:19.075 --> 00:11:22.580
Also, it's paper bound, and

00:11:22.580 --> 00:11:25.140
the cover has a nice feel to it.

00:11:25.140 --> 00:11:28.200
And the book itself is the shoebox.

Iris:

Exactly. 

00:11:28.660 --> 00:11:31.780
It takes the place of a shoebox. And that

00:11:31.780 --> 00:11:34.660
is so cool. So it's still the whole

00:11:34.660 --> 00:11:35.160
spirit

00:11:35.540 --> 00:11:36.520
of what

00:11:36.905 --> 00:11:39.805
Holland did. And now it's in this convenient

00:11:40.265 --> 00:11:43.165
little, you know, package. It is just absolutely

00:11:43.785 --> 00:11:44.285
wonderful.

Iris:

00:11:44.745 --> 00:11:46.985
Thank you. 

00:11:46.985 --> 00:11:49.740
I want to talk briefly about your other book while we're at it. 

Iris:

00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:51.280
Sure. Back in 2011,

00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:54.000
my husband, my late husband, Mort, and I,

00:11:54.300 --> 00:11:57.500
were philanthropists. I've told people this so many

00:11:57.500 --> 00:11:58.000
times.

00:11:59.260 --> 00:12:02.320
Giving while you're around to see the benefit

00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:03.440
of your gift

00:12:03.755 --> 00:12:05.615
is the win-win situation.

00:12:06.395 --> 00:12:09.455
Don't wait and leave it all in your

00:12:09.995 --> 00:12:12.795
trust or whatever you call those things for

00:12:12.795 --> 00:12:15.810
after you're gone, and then people inherit it,

00:12:15.890 --> 00:12:18.450
And you haven't shared in the joy of

00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:20.850
seeing all the good that the money can

00:12:20.850 --> 00:12:22.390
do. So if you have a dollar,

00:12:23.010 --> 00:12:25.330
give a dollar. If you have more, give

00:12:25.330 --> 00:12:25.830
more.

00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:29.895
But watch what happens when you fund, and

00:12:29.895 --> 00:12:32.415
you can fund something for a $100 or

00:12:32.415 --> 00:12:35.175
a million dollars. Anybody wanna share with me

00:12:35.175 --> 00:12:36.155
a million dollars?

00:12:36.615 --> 00:12:39.095
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's

00:12:39.095 --> 00:12:40.555
a double win-win,

00:12:41.015 --> 00:12:42.695
and that's what we've done. So the book

00:12:42.695 --> 00:12:44.375
grew out of that. It's called "The Fine

00:12:44.375 --> 00:12:46.100
Art of Schnorring,"

00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:48.980
which is the Yiddish word for begging.

00:12:49.520 --> 00:12:51.680
And this is begging raised to a high

00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:52.660
level because

00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.340
you beg for, you ask for, items,

00:12:56.800 --> 00:12:59.760
you give the items away, and people are

00:12:59.760 --> 00:13:00.260
thrilled

00:13:00.595 --> 00:13:01.655
to receive them.

00:13:01.955 --> 00:13:04.115
And it's a very sweet little book. It's

00:13:04.115 --> 00:13:07.575
funny, very funny. It is. And it takes

00:13:08.115 --> 00:13:10.055
philanthropy to a different level.

00:13:10.435 --> 00:13:12.535
And we had so much fun with it.

00:13:12.915 --> 00:13:15.155
It's in a lot of offices where people

00:13:15.155 --> 00:13:15.655
are,

00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.160
what do you call them, fundraisers? 

Rachel:

Development. 

Iris:

00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:20.620
That's the word I'm looking for, development

00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:21.740
people.

00:13:22.280 --> 00:13:24.440
And they show it to their clients, and

00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.620
they laugh about it because it's silly.

00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.320
But it's also got a message, and that

00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:29.820
is

00:13:31.125 --> 00:13:32.665
when you ask for something

00:13:33.045 --> 00:13:34.725
and they can't give it to you, you

00:13:34.725 --> 00:13:36.825
say thank you for listening.

00:13:37.685 --> 00:13:38.185
Because

00:13:38.565 --> 00:13:40.405
a year later, they'll come back to you

00:13:40.405 --> 00:13:42.885
and say, remember when you needed some money

00:13:42.885 --> 00:13:44.905
for that? Well, now I have some money.

00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:46.450
I'd like to give it to you.

00:13:46.830 --> 00:13:48.910
You can't lose when you take it to

00:13:48.910 --> 00:13:49.970
that fine level.

Kate:

00:13:50.510 --> 00:13:53.550
You're kind, and you spread that kindness. 

Iris:

00:13:53.550 --> 00:13:56.750
Yeah. That's exactly right. It's kindness. 

Rachel:

00:13:56.750 --> 00:13:58.850
Can I also add that it's not just money? Because

00:13:59.185 --> 00:14:00.165
back in the day,

00:14:00.705 --> 00:14:02.785
my mom and Mort used to put these

00:14:02.785 --> 00:14:03.925
backpacks together.

00:14:04.385 --> 00:14:06.065
A school would have a contest, I guess,

00:14:06.065 --> 00:14:08.145
and the kids that would win were going

00:14:08.145 --> 00:14:08.885
to Greenfield Village?

Iris:

00:14:09.265 --> 00:14:11.825
That's right. We sent groups out every year.

Rachel:

00:14:11.825 --> 00:14:13.345
And they'd be on this big bus,

00:14:13.345 --> 00:14:15.240
and they would get this backpack, and it

00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.120
would have little notebooks and pencils and maybe

00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:19.260
a yo-yo and

00:14:19.640 --> 00:14:20.300
a kazoo.

00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.720
Whatever they could schnorr would go into

00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:25.960
this backpack. And so it's not just, you

00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.195
know, give me your money. It was, hey,

00:14:28.195 --> 00:14:29.975
can you give me 50 notepads

00:14:30.355 --> 00:14:32.595
for this kids' thing? Absolutely. We get a

00:14:32.595 --> 00:14:34.515
package of notepads. Can you give me some

00:14:34.515 --> 00:14:37.715
colored pencils? Sure. And these backpacks would just

00:14:37.715 --> 00:14:39.255
be full of goodies,

00:14:39.715 --> 00:14:41.075
and these kids would get on the bus

00:14:41.075 --> 00:14:42.135
and have entertainment

00:14:42.595 --> 00:14:43.575
for three hours.

Kate:

00:14:43.910 --> 00:14:46.150
That is terrific. 

Iris:

00:14:46.150 --> 00:14:48.410
Yeah. And they'd be happy. We even schnorred suitcases

00:14:48.790 --> 00:14:52.070
for them one time. And sleeping bags, we

00:14:52.070 --> 00:14:54.890
schnorred that from a department store in Chautauqua,

00:14:55.030 --> 00:14:56.010
New York, actually.

00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:58.970
We never stopped schnorring. It was

00:14:59.395 --> 00:15:01.715
sort of embarrassing, but in a nice way,

00:15:01.715 --> 00:15:02.375
you know?

Kate:

00:15:02.915 --> 00:15:05.415
Well, you're good at it. 

Iris:

00:15:05.475 --> 00:15:06.215
Yeah, you smile a lot.

Anita:

00:15:07.955 --> 00:15:09.895
I could even take it a step further.

00:15:09.955 --> 00:15:12.615
We live in subsidized housing for performing artists,

00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:15.240
three blocks from Times Square. We're very lucky.

00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:17.300
And in order to give back, we don't

00:15:17.300 --> 00:15:17.800
always

00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:21.140
have money because an artist's income goes up

00:15:21.140 --> 00:15:22.980
and down and up and down. And you're

00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:24.500
never sure if you have money now you

00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:26.505
will have it next month. So I started

00:15:26.505 --> 00:15:28.425
doing something a year ago, which is based

00:15:28.425 --> 00:15:30.585
on Mom and Mort. People would say, "Do

00:15:30.585 --> 00:15:32.685
you have anything to offer for this auction?"

00:15:33.305 --> 00:15:34.825
And I was like, you know, well, I

00:15:34.825 --> 00:15:36.525
could write somebody a song.

00:15:36.985 --> 00:15:39.145
And it turned out people wanted a song.

Kate:

00:15:39.145 --> 00:15:40.365
Oh my gosh, yes!

Anita:

00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:43.440
Fifteen thousand dollars to a temple, to a

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:43.940
synagogue,

00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:47.440
because three different people wanted a song. And

00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.280
when they went for the bidding, they were

00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:50.560
up to $5,000

00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:53.520
Each of these couples paid $5,000

00:15:53.520 --> 00:15:55.285
and I wrote them a song. And it

00:15:55.285 --> 00:15:57.125
was great because I knew these people, so

00:15:57.125 --> 00:15:59.365
I wrote it about them. And it was

00:15:59.365 --> 00:15:59.865
really

00:16:00.565 --> 00:16:03.305
so exciting, so exciting that three months later,

00:16:03.365 --> 00:16:05.685
for my high school reunion, in Shaker

00:16:05.685 --> 00:16:07.605
Heights High School, they said, "Do you have

00:16:07.605 --> 00:16:09.285
anything for the auction?" And I'm like, you

00:16:09.285 --> 00:16:10.745
know, I can't afford to

00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:14.590
donate Broadway tickets because if you've noticed, the

00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:16.910
price of Broadway tickets would never work. I

00:16:16.910 --> 00:16:18.430
mean, it's, like, way over the roof for

00:16:18.430 --> 00:16:19.650
now. But

00:16:20.110 --> 00:16:21.950
I said I could write somebody a song.

00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:22.450
And

00:16:23.735 --> 00:16:25.495
one couple took me up on it, and

00:16:25.495 --> 00:16:26.315
they paid

00:16:27.015 --> 00:16:28.235
a good amount of money

00:16:28.935 --> 00:16:30.615
for me to write them a song. The

00:16:30.615 --> 00:16:32.455
husband had gone to school with me, but

00:16:32.455 --> 00:16:33.895
not the wife, so we talked and I

00:16:33.895 --> 00:16:34.955
wrote them a song.

00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:37.960
Nine months later, I got these flowers. I

00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:39.960
was like, what are these? "Well, we still

00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.280
are singing that song that you wrote for

00:16:42.280 --> 00:16:45.160
us." And so I was able to give

00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:46.540
money to my school

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.815
by writing somebody a song. Mom and Mort

00:16:49.815 --> 00:16:51.975
and my dad too, I mean, they all

00:16:51.975 --> 00:16:54.475
sort of put forward this idea of legacy.

00:16:54.535 --> 00:16:55.355
Leave something.

00:16:55.895 --> 00:16:57.355
Whatever you have to give,

00:16:57.815 --> 00:17:00.695
give it to somebody, and then it helps

00:17:00.695 --> 00:17:03.860
somebody else and all that. 

Kate:

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.660
That is lovely. So, anyway, since you're

00:17:07.040 --> 00:17:09.920
speaking right now, Anita, why don't we go

00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.300
into your career?

00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:13.840
How did you make it to New York

00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:17.745
City, and what inspired you to become a

00:17:17.745 --> 00:17:18.245
multi-talented

00:17:18.865 --> 00:17:21.825
performer and an advocate too? I want to make

00:17:21.825 --> 00:17:23.045
sure we cover that.

Anita:

00:17:23.905 --> 00:17:25.985
Well, it seems to go right along with

00:17:25.985 --> 00:17:28.565
my life. But I was born into this.

00:17:28.590 --> 00:17:31.490
I was born with the performing gene because

00:17:31.630 --> 00:17:33.410
my grandmother, Mom's mom,

00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:35.650
Celeste Corine Flaxman,

00:17:36.110 --> 00:17:37.090
was a vaudeville

00:17:37.790 --> 00:17:38.290
dancer.

00:17:38.590 --> 00:17:40.450
She danced on the vaudeville circuits,

00:17:41.070 --> 00:17:43.915
toured around, and we have great pictures. There's

00:17:43.915 --> 00:17:46.575
one of her leaning against the proscenium wearing

00:17:46.875 --> 00:17:49.515
a leopard skin and nothing else. 

Iris:

00:17:49.515 --> 00:17:50.735
That was a long time ago.

Anita:

00:17:51.115 --> 00:17:53.515
Way long ago. 

Kate:

00:17:53.515 --> 00:17:54.015
I would like to see that.

00:17:54.795 --> 00:17:57.200
We need a picture of that. 

Anita:

00:17:57.580 --> 00:18:00.640
A word description: She was amazing. And she died

00:18:00.780 --> 00:18:01.520
of cancer

00:18:02.060 --> 00:18:03.680
six years before I was born.

00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:07.340
And I came into the world screaming and

00:18:07.340 --> 00:18:09.520
screamed for one year solid,

00:18:10.215 --> 00:18:11.575
At the end of which I jumped out

00:18:11.575 --> 00:18:12.395
of my crib

00:18:13.255 --> 00:18:15.255
and had a little concussion, which of course made

00:18:15.255 --> 00:18:17.575
me go into show business because you have

00:18:17.575 --> 00:18:20.135
to have definitely a problem with your brain

00:18:20.135 --> 00:18:22.295
to go into show business. I was born

00:18:22.295 --> 00:18:24.980
with a lot of her qualities and her

00:18:24.980 --> 00:18:27.540
face. I turned 40. And my mom was

00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:29.940
looking at me going, "You look exactly like

00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.760
my mom, you look exactly like my mom."

00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:34.760
I definitely am her.

00:18:35.385 --> 00:18:37.305
So I have no choice. I'm going into

00:18:37.305 --> 00:18:38.125
show business.

00:18:38.425 --> 00:18:38.925
And fortunately,

00:18:39.385 --> 00:18:39.885
Mom

00:18:40.185 --> 00:18:43.065
supported that. Dad supported that with taking me

00:18:43.065 --> 00:18:44.745
to an audition when I was 8 years

00:18:44.745 --> 00:18:47.305
old, and I got my first professional job

00:18:47.305 --> 00:18:49.705
in "The Sound of Music" in Cleveland at

00:18:49.705 --> 00:18:52.740
Musicarnival. It was a professional theater. Wally

00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:55.060
Harper was conducting the orchestra who went on

00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:57.240
to be Barbara Cook's musical director. I mean,

00:18:57.300 --> 00:19:00.040
these were people whose names were from Broadway,

00:19:00.100 --> 00:19:02.020
and I was 8 years old. And I

00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:03.800
was understudying the part of Gretl,

00:19:04.165 --> 00:19:06.965
the youngest of the von Trapp children in

00:19:06.965 --> 00:19:08.025
"The Sound of Music."

00:19:08.645 --> 00:19:11.365
And the actress who played Gretl was generous

00:19:11.365 --> 00:19:14.085
enough to get German measles for three nights,

00:19:14.085 --> 00:19:15.925
and I got to go on. She was

00:19:15.925 --> 00:19:18.640
very generous girl. And the show was so

00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.160
successful, they brought it back the next year,

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.840
and I got my own role, which was

00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:23.680
Marta. I grew two inches and got to

00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:26.660
be the second daughter. Anyways, from then on,

00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:28.500
it was all theater,

00:19:28.800 --> 00:19:30.100
all music, all dance,

00:19:30.455 --> 00:19:32.055
all the time. My sisters and I all

00:19:32.055 --> 00:19:34.775
sang together at shopping malls and events and

00:19:34.775 --> 00:19:35.835
television. And

00:19:36.135 --> 00:19:37.515
growing up, we sang

00:19:38.135 --> 00:19:39.435
all the time. And

00:19:40.615 --> 00:19:42.615
dad being a cantor at the synagogue and

00:19:42.615 --> 00:19:44.935
a big Broadway enthusiast and a performer at

00:19:44.935 --> 00:19:47.230
City Club shows, he was a ham.

00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:48.610
So we were all, we all

00:19:48.910 --> 00:19:51.250
were born into this, but I was definitely

00:19:51.310 --> 00:19:52.910
going to go into this as a career.

00:19:52.910 --> 00:19:55.170
I knew this, so I gained a resume

00:19:55.310 --> 00:19:56.850
over the years in Cleveland

00:19:57.790 --> 00:19:59.950
performing at all the theaters and, like, playing

00:19:59.950 --> 00:20:01.790
Martha Jefferson in "1776"

00:20:01.790 --> 00:20:04.005
when I was 16 years old. Anyways, at

00:20:04.005 --> 00:20:04.745
21

00:20:05.045 --> 00:20:07.685
at Carnegie Mellon University, I'm working on getting

00:20:07.685 --> 00:20:09.925
a degree in acting because I'd been singing

00:20:09.925 --> 00:20:12.025
all along, but I wanted more acting training.

00:20:12.165 --> 00:20:14.185
I was diagnosed with cancer

00:20:14.725 --> 00:20:15.750
in my leg.

00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:19.270
And six weeks after that surgery, I went

00:20:19.270 --> 00:20:21.350
back to school because I was not having

00:20:21.350 --> 00:20:23.270
it as far as not graduating with my

00:20:23.270 --> 00:20:25.270
class. So I graduated with my class the

00:20:25.270 --> 00:20:26.170
next year

00:20:26.550 --> 00:20:28.890
and went on to summer stock and

00:20:29.435 --> 00:20:31.915
then went to Europe and studied at LAMDA,

00:20:31.915 --> 00:20:34.395
London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, and

00:20:34.395 --> 00:20:36.335
toured Europe with a company,

00:20:36.795 --> 00:20:38.895
came back and got a recurrence

00:20:39.275 --> 00:20:41.275
of the cancer in my leg while I

00:20:41.275 --> 00:20:42.095
was directing

00:20:42.395 --> 00:20:44.555
"Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living

00:20:44.555 --> 00:20:45.135
in Paris"

00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:47.880
in Boston. I came back from Europe

00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.640
and I was living in Boston, getting a

00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:50.380
show up,

00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.400
directing it and performing in it, and my

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.240
leg was hurting, and it was terrible. And

00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:55.740
then

00:20:56.040 --> 00:20:57.400
I found out I had to have my

00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:58.220
leg amputated.

00:20:58.865 --> 00:21:01.425
So I had my leg amputated at Mass General and went

00:21:01.425 --> 00:21:03.285
back to rehearsals two weeks later,

00:21:03.825 --> 00:21:05.425
staged the rest of the show on one

00:21:05.425 --> 00:21:07.505
leg and opened in the show four weeks

00:21:07.505 --> 00:21:10.545
after the amputation. My favorite story to tell,

00:21:10.545 --> 00:21:11.525
it's really

00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:14.800
amazing because I was lucky enough to have

00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:17.520
Grandma Celeste and Mom and Dad and all

00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:19.460
the people along the way in my life

00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.500
who believed

00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:23.835
that there was nothing that was ever gonna

00:21:23.835 --> 00:21:25.835
stop me. So I did open the show,

00:21:25.835 --> 00:21:27.675
did run the show, and there were a

00:21:27.675 --> 00:21:30.315
couple of features that came out about me

00:21:30.315 --> 00:21:31.535
doing that. And

00:21:31.835 --> 00:21:32.735
it helped me,

00:21:33.195 --> 00:21:35.215
and few years later, I got a

00:21:35.515 --> 00:21:37.595
job teaching at NYU, which got me down

00:21:37.595 --> 00:21:39.880
to New York City, which was my endgame

00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:42.020
goal all my life. And I've been there

00:21:42.020 --> 00:21:43.380
since 1983,

00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:45.160
a year after the amputation.

00:21:45.620 --> 00:21:47.480
And what comes along with

00:21:48.020 --> 00:21:48.520
having

00:21:48.980 --> 00:21:50.980
cancer and first having a brace on my

00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:53.835
leg and touring Europe and then losing my

00:21:53.835 --> 00:21:55.915
leg and going on stage. What comes along

00:21:55.915 --> 00:21:57.215
with that is advocating

00:21:57.835 --> 00:22:00.235
because you are already an advocate when you

00:22:00.235 --> 00:22:02.235
walk on the stage on one leg or

00:22:02.235 --> 00:22:04.075
on an artificial leg or with a brace

00:22:04.075 --> 00:22:05.535
on you. You're automatically

00:22:05.995 --> 00:22:07.695
an advocate because you're saying,

00:22:08.090 --> 00:22:09.930
if I could do this, you can do

00:22:09.930 --> 00:22:12.330
this. And, fortunately, the "Today" show did a

00:22:12.330 --> 00:22:12.830
nice

00:22:13.530 --> 00:22:15.690
piece about it in 1991

00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:18.030
after I'd gotten married, had a child,

00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:20.590
and doing this on one leg. And

00:22:20.925 --> 00:22:22.365
they were like, we have to tell this

00:22:22.365 --> 00:22:24.925
story. So that helped a lot. I was

00:22:24.925 --> 00:22:27.025
opening for comics at the Improvisation

00:22:27.325 --> 00:22:30.045
Comedy Club on 44th Street by Times

00:22:30.045 --> 00:22:33.005
Square around the corner, opening for Robin Williams,

00:22:33.005 --> 00:22:33.825
Larry David,

00:22:34.285 --> 00:22:35.505
Ray Ramano,

00:22:36.290 --> 00:22:37.830
all those great folks, and

00:22:38.370 --> 00:22:40.530
they put this out there on the "Today"

00:22:40.530 --> 00:22:42.150
show, which was great. So

00:22:42.770 --> 00:22:45.490
my way of giving back was that I

00:22:45.490 --> 00:22:46.710
could help others

00:22:47.170 --> 00:22:48.950
to get work in this industry.

00:22:49.265 --> 00:22:50.785
And there's no easy way to get work

00:22:50.785 --> 00:22:53.025
in this industry no matter what you are,

00:22:53.025 --> 00:22:54.865
no matter how many legs you have, no

00:22:54.865 --> 00:22:58.225
matter how absolutely gorgeous or talented or whatever

00:22:58.225 --> 00:23:00.145
you might be. It's still hard to get

00:23:00.145 --> 00:23:02.590
a job, but it's even harder if you

00:23:02.590 --> 00:23:04.590
have a disability. It's harder even to get

00:23:04.590 --> 00:23:05.570
into an audition.

00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:08.190
So I became the national chair of Performers

00:23:08.190 --> 00:23:10.910
with Disabilities at SAG-AFTRA, which is Screen

00:23:10.910 --> 00:23:11.890
Actors Guild.

00:23:12.190 --> 00:23:14.510
And also I've served as a council member

00:23:14.510 --> 00:23:16.670
at Actors' Equity, which is the stage version

00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:17.985
of the union. And in each

00:23:18.945 --> 00:23:20.965
case, charting where we are

00:23:21.505 --> 00:23:22.245
in television,

00:23:22.785 --> 00:23:23.285
radio,

00:23:23.825 --> 00:23:24.325
theater,

00:23:25.025 --> 00:23:25.525
movies,

00:23:25.985 --> 00:23:28.545
all those things, and showing the industry that

00:23:28.545 --> 00:23:30.465
there's not enough of us out there, and

00:23:30.465 --> 00:23:32.405
there's not enough authentic representation.

00:23:32.910 --> 00:23:35.730
And now we've tripled our employment on TV.

00:23:36.110 --> 00:23:38.190
And some of us have gotten Oscars now

00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:40.590
and Tony Awards. And I mean, it's so

00:23:40.590 --> 00:23:42.830
much different than it was in 1980 when

00:23:42.830 --> 00:23:44.690
I started to, like, be this

00:23:45.390 --> 00:23:45.890
loud

00:23:46.595 --> 00:23:48.835
pioneer. I never hit anybody over the head.

00:23:48.835 --> 00:23:49.895
I do things gently.

00:23:50.595 --> 00:23:52.275
I always have a smile on my face.

00:23:52.275 --> 00:23:54.055
I'm not angry. I'm just saying,

00:23:54.755 --> 00:23:57.895
like, Hollywood producers, we can benefit from this

00:23:57.955 --> 00:23:58.455
both.

00:23:58.835 --> 00:24:00.275
So I'm not here to yell at you.

00:24:00.275 --> 00:24:01.495
I'm here to tell you,

00:24:01.830 --> 00:24:04.390
if you get more of us on TV

00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:06.310
or in a film, you're gonna have more

00:24:06.310 --> 00:24:06.810
sponsors,

00:24:07.110 --> 00:24:09.350
you're gonna have more backers, you're gonna have

00:24:09.350 --> 00:24:10.090
more audience.

00:24:10.870 --> 00:24:12.090
It's a win-win.

00:24:12.550 --> 00:24:14.310
And I do think I've learned all this

00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:15.290
from my mother.

00:24:15.685 --> 00:24:17.845
Because she's so good at letting people know

00:24:17.845 --> 00:24:19.225
that if you give

00:24:19.605 --> 00:24:21.525
to this hospital wing, this is a win-

00:24:21.525 --> 00:24:23.445
win because you may have a grandchild with

00:24:23.445 --> 00:24:25.525
autism and you're gonna need that. Or you

00:24:25.525 --> 00:24:27.525
may have a mom who has cancer and

00:24:27.525 --> 00:24:28.145
you're gonna need that breast cancer wing and

00:24:28.145 --> 00:24:28.740
you're gonna need this

00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:33.500
library and this nature center and this, you

00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:34.360
know, it totally

00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:36.440
goes through the family. It's not

00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:38.040
me being anything

00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:41.060
new. The only thing new about me was

00:24:41.060 --> 00:24:44.360
that, and critics have said, "She was obviously

00:24:44.875 --> 00:24:47.115
ahead of her time," was nobody was going

00:24:47.115 --> 00:24:49.675
out on stage writing shows, writing musicals about

00:24:49.675 --> 00:24:52.175
having one leg. That was a new thing.

00:24:52.555 --> 00:24:55.615
And when I first introduced my first original show...

Kate:

00:24:55.675 --> 00:24:57.375
Was that "Still Standing"?

Anita:

00:24:57.860 --> 00:25:00.100
That was "Still Standing." Boy, you've done your

00:25:00.100 --> 00:25:00.600
research.

00:25:01.060 --> 00:25:04.180
I premiered it at a cabaret called Don't

00:25:04.180 --> 00:25:05.940
Tell Mama. It's on Theater Row on 

00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:07.000
46th Street. And

00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:10.820
everybody was like, "I don't know if this

00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:12.285
is the kind of show you wanna do

00:25:12.285 --> 00:25:14.225
in a cabaret." I had been showcasing

00:25:14.845 --> 00:25:16.605
the work of many writers because I was

00:25:16.605 --> 00:25:19.245
in the BMI workshop and the ASCAP workshop

00:25:19.245 --> 00:25:21.585
for writers because I write my own music.

00:25:21.885 --> 00:25:23.565
And they were like, "Hey, this is like

00:25:23.565 --> 00:25:25.680
a bridge too far. Who's gonna wanna come

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.760
and see a show about cancer and losing

00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:29.540
a leg?" But, but it's very funny.

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.540
At any rate, I had a following.

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.020
And Sydney Meyer, who was running

00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.800
Don't Tell Mama, said, "Hey, if it's you,

00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:38.900
I know we're gonna get an audience. And

00:25:39.125 --> 00:25:40.485
I don't know if it's gonna go well

00:25:40.485 --> 00:25:42.745
or not, but give it a try." Nowadays,

00:25:43.285 --> 00:25:45.545
every cabaret show you see

00:25:45.845 --> 00:25:47.525
has to do with the thing they went

00:25:47.525 --> 00:25:50.005
through, you know, the difficult thing they went

00:25:50.005 --> 00:25:50.905
through in life.

00:25:51.205 --> 00:25:53.705
And either they write it themselves or they're

00:25:53.790 --> 00:25:54.290
picking

00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:56.910
Broadway show tunes or show tunes that talk

00:25:56.910 --> 00:25:58.690
about going through something difficult.

00:25:59.390 --> 00:26:01.890
So when I've been reviewed more recently,

00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:05.870
the Boston Globe said, "Well, she obviously was

00:26:05.870 --> 00:26:07.790
ahead of her time. She's been doing this

00:26:07.790 --> 00:26:10.345
for a while." And it is true. It's

00:26:10.345 --> 00:26:12.425
hard to be a pioneer because by the

00:26:12.425 --> 00:26:15.005
time people notice that you were a pioneer,

00:26:15.145 --> 00:26:16.285
you're a lot older.

00:26:18.025 --> 00:26:21.145
But, fortunately, I'm still getting TV work and

00:26:21.145 --> 00:26:23.410
theater work, and I just came back from

00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:25.810
Alabama where I set the music of all

00:26:25.810 --> 00:26:27.430
of these writers with disabilities.

00:26:28.210 --> 00:26:30.450
I set them to music in a theater

00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:32.230
piece called "From Where I Sit."

00:26:32.770 --> 00:26:33.270
And

00:26:33.570 --> 00:26:36.515
these writers had never performed before, and I

00:26:36.515 --> 00:26:38.755
got them singing in three-part harmony. And

00:26:38.755 --> 00:26:40.695
I just had the best,

00:26:41.235 --> 00:26:42.135
best time.

Kate:

00:26:42.835 --> 00:26:45.155
Is that going to be stage show or

00:26:45.155 --> 00:26:47.010
is that going to be a recorded show? What is that?

Anita:

00:26:47.090 --> 00:26:48.850
A stage show that can be

00:26:48.850 --> 00:26:50.770
seen online if you look for,

00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:53.510
I think if you look at "From Where

00:26:53.570 --> 00:26:56.690
I Sit" and you just write Alabama. They

00:26:56.690 --> 00:26:59.410
did a video, two versions, so my mom

00:26:59.410 --> 00:27:01.250
could see it because she was in Cleveland.

Iris:

00:27:01.250 --> 00:27:03.385
I watched both of them, honey, and they

00:27:03.385 --> 00:27:07.085
were amazing. And I loved the participation

00:27:07.465 --> 00:27:08.285
of all the

00:27:08.665 --> 00:27:10.525
performers who had never performed

00:27:10.985 --> 00:27:11.485
before

00:27:12.105 --> 00:27:14.505
and suddenly found a weight lifted off of

00:27:14.505 --> 00:27:16.765
their shoulders. Some were in wheelchairs,

00:27:17.225 --> 00:27:18.285
some on crutches,

00:27:18.850 --> 00:27:21.590
and they were performing with such joy.

00:27:21.970 --> 00:27:24.390
That was the basic line of the show,

00:27:24.610 --> 00:27:26.950
Anita. There was so much joy

00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:28.390
in the performance,

00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:31.410
truly. I have to add one thing to

00:27:31.410 --> 00:27:32.630
my darling daughter's

00:27:33.495 --> 00:27:34.715
conversation here.

00:27:35.095 --> 00:27:37.015
Before she was in her teens, Dad and

00:27:37.015 --> 00:27:39.595
I took the four girls to New York

00:27:40.135 --> 00:27:43.175
mainly to show them well, we saw plays.

00:27:43.175 --> 00:27:45.655
We saw five plays in what four days?

Rachel and Anita:

00:27:45.735 --> 00:27:47.940
Four days. Two days. 

Iris:

00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:50.420
Oh, my God, we were crazy, and prices were a lot better.

00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:52.280
But at that time, it was still high

00:27:52.340 --> 00:27:52.840
priced.

00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:55.000
But we kept driving Anita

00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:57.800
down to the lower village

00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:02.175
where the laundry was hanging from the windows,

00:28:02.235 --> 00:28:03.535
from window to window,

00:28:03.835 --> 00:28:05.995
where there was garbage all over the streets,

00:28:05.995 --> 00:28:07.675
and we kept saying to each other, your

00:28:07.675 --> 00:28:08.575
dad and I,

00:28:08.955 --> 00:28:11.215
maybe we can talk her out of this.

00:28:11.835 --> 00:28:14.075
And, by God, she kept saying, "Oh, this

00:28:14.075 --> 00:28:16.555
is so beautiful. Oh, my God, I love

00:28:16.555 --> 00:28:19.440
it here." We lost the battle totally.

Kate:

00:28:20.300 --> 00:28:20.800
Clearly.

Iris:

00:28:21.100 --> 00:28:21.600
Clearly.

Anita:

00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:25.600
That's true, Mom. It was weird. The dirtiest

00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:27.820
city in the whole world, and I couldn't

00:28:27.820 --> 00:28:31.100
get enough of it. 

Kate:

00:28:31.100 --> 00:28:32.560
Is "Still Standing" also in recorded form?

Anita:

00:28:33.685 --> 00:28:36.165
Actually, there is a performance of it on

00:28:36.165 --> 00:28:37.845
YouTube. If you go on YouTube and you

00:28:37.845 --> 00:28:39.225
look up Anita Hollander,

00:28:39.685 --> 00:28:41.525
you can find a lot of those things.

00:28:41.525 --> 00:28:42.505
Also "Spectacular

00:28:42.805 --> 00:28:44.265
Falls," which is the second

00:28:44.725 --> 00:28:47.545
show I wrote. The first one, "Still Standing";

00:28:47.605 --> 00:28:50.820
second show, "Spectacular Falls." The third one is

00:28:50.820 --> 00:28:52.180
going to be, and I'm working on it

00:28:52.180 --> 00:28:53.400
now, it's called "Balance:

00:28:53.780 --> 00:28:54.440
A Footnote"

00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:57.380
(balance-colon-a footnote), which will be the

00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:00.020
end of the trilogy. But Rachel is such

00:29:00.020 --> 00:29:01.860
a big part of this. Not only is

00:29:01.860 --> 00:29:04.675
she mentioned in both of these shows and

00:29:04.675 --> 00:29:07.635
sung about, she's gone with me to perform

00:29:07.635 --> 00:29:09.335
this in many different cities

00:29:10.035 --> 00:29:12.455
because she does the sign language.

00:29:12.915 --> 00:29:15.075
And not just over on the side, she's

00:29:15.075 --> 00:29:17.640
with me. And on the song in "Still

00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.720
Standing" called Lazy Day, which is all about

00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:21.160
her coming to visit me while I was

00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.500
on chemo and radiation and everything,

00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:24.860
we switch

00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:27.340
parts. It's really very funny.

00:29:27.800 --> 00:29:28.184
It's very,

00:29:28.792 --> 00:29:31.080
very meta because my voice is coming through

00:29:31.080 --> 00:29:33.925
on the soundtrack, but I'm being Rachel because

00:29:33.925 --> 00:29:36.565
Rachel was a goof burger. I mean, she

00:29:36.565 --> 00:29:38.565
was so great. She would come into town

00:29:38.565 --> 00:29:40.405
and I was like argh, and she's "We're

00:29:40.405 --> 00:29:41.845
going to go to the movies. We're gonna

00:29:41.845 --> 00:29:44.085
have pizza." No, I can't eat pizza. "Yes, we're gonna

00:29:44.085 --> 00:29:46.770
eat." I mean, she was like my cheerleader.

00:29:47.390 --> 00:29:48.130
And we'd

00:29:48.510 --> 00:29:49.650
bop around Pittsburgh,

00:29:50.110 --> 00:29:52.590
and she would just really cheer me up.

00:29:52.590 --> 00:29:55.150
So I wrote this jazzy song about her.

00:29:55.150 --> 00:29:57.090
So the two of us are on stage

00:29:57.630 --> 00:29:58.130
being

00:29:58.755 --> 00:30:01.475
just totally crazy. I've had a children's choir

00:30:01.475 --> 00:30:03.475
for 28 years with whom I write

00:30:03.475 --> 00:30:03.975
songs.

00:30:04.275 --> 00:30:04.775
And

00:30:05.075 --> 00:30:07.395
at one point in "Spectacular Falls," we talk

00:30:07.395 --> 00:30:09.335
about people who fall through the cracks,

00:30:09.955 --> 00:30:13.090
and that's the immigrant people right now more

00:30:13.090 --> 00:30:15.730
than ever. But this was back in 2020

00:30:15.730 --> 00:30:18.050
or something. And it was the kids' idea

00:30:18.050 --> 00:30:20.770
to say "welcome" in 20 different languages. So

00:30:20.770 --> 00:30:22.530
everyone went home and found out where they

00:30:22.530 --> 00:30:24.710
come from. And we used all the languages.

00:30:25.965 --> 00:30:27.805
I told Rachel, at this point in the

00:30:27.805 --> 00:30:29.805
show, you sit down and relax. This is

00:30:29.805 --> 00:30:31.745
your little intermission, and I

00:30:32.045 --> 00:30:32.545
will

00:30:33.005 --> 00:30:36.065
sign the show or interpret the show

00:30:36.845 --> 00:30:39.565
to the voices of my children's choir singing

00:30:39.565 --> 00:30:40.945
this song about immigrants.

00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.720
So I worked my butt off to learn

00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.500
from Rachel. I am studying

00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:47.880
ASL, but I'm never gonna be as good

00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.640
as she is. But I worked it out,

00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:51.320
and she corrected me when I had it

00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:52.700
wrong. And she made sure

00:30:53.080 --> 00:30:55.320
that I could just stop singing for a

00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.820
minute

00:30:56.175 --> 00:30:58.335
and sign and have the voices of the

00:30:58.335 --> 00:31:01.215
children. So Rachel's really such an integral part

00:31:01.215 --> 00:31:02.275
of all this stuff.

Rachel:

00:31:02.655 --> 00:31:04.735
I think it was when you were on

00:31:04.735 --> 00:31:06.115
Sally Jesse Rafael...

Anita:

Yeah.

Rachel:

00:31:06.895 --> 00:31:08.595
They dubbed her

00:31:09.270 --> 00:31:11.510
a "Woman of Courage." 

Anita:

00:31:11.510 --> 00:31:13.750
Oh, no. That was "Evening Magazine" in Boston. 

Rachel:

00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:15.290
And can I tell you what it's like to be

00:31:15.590 --> 00:31:17.750
not only in the family of, but the

00:31:17.750 --> 00:31:19.210
younger sibling of,

00:31:19.590 --> 00:31:20.810
a "Woman of Courage"?

Kate:

00:31:21.365 --> 00:31:22.505
Oh, do tell.

Rachel:

00:31:23.125 --> 00:31:25.365
Anita, you want to talk about being a "Woman

00:31:25.365 --> 00:31:26.105
of Courage"?

Anita:

00:31:27.285 --> 00:31:29.625
Yeah. I never really loved that. I think

00:31:30.005 --> 00:31:32.005
maybe it actually was the "Today" show in

00:31:32.005 --> 00:31:33.125
1991,

00:31:33.125 --> 00:31:34.905
the day that we went into

00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:38.300
Iraq. There was an hour and 50 minutes

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.000
of war stuff, and then they put me

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.480
on the last 10 minutes. It was called

00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.040
"People You Should Know," but they labeled the

00:31:46.040 --> 00:31:48.860
piece about me "Woman of Courage."

00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:50.220
And, honestly,

00:31:51.035 --> 00:31:53.435
that really didn't feel good to me. The

00:31:53.435 --> 00:31:55.295
old brave thing, inspiration,

00:31:55.595 --> 00:31:57.055
courage, all that stuff

00:31:57.595 --> 00:32:00.495
was a little much. But at any rate,

00:32:00.555 --> 00:32:02.715
at the end of the "Today" show story,

00:32:02.715 --> 00:32:05.215
they go back to Betty Friedan and Deborah

00:32:05.355 --> 00:32:08.690
Norville. And Betty says, yeah, she's wonderful. There

00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:10.530
there are things she can't do. She can't

00:32:10.530 --> 00:32:13.250
dance, but there are so many other things

00:32:13.250 --> 00:32:15.010
she can do. And Deborah, who was pregnant

00:32:15.010 --> 00:32:17.810
at the time, goes, and I'm sure she'll

00:32:17.810 --> 00:32:20.375
do every one of those things. And that's

00:32:20.375 --> 00:32:22.475
how they ended the "Today" show. It was

00:32:23.735 --> 00:32:25.335
like, first of all, I could dance, and

00:32:25.335 --> 00:32:27.255
I was dancing. And Rachel will tell you.

00:32:27.255 --> 00:32:28.855
Rachel and I were in "Pump Boys and Dinettes" together.

Rachel:

00:32:28.855 --> 00:32:31.975
 She tap dances better than me.

00:32:31.975 --> 00:32:34.695
On the artificial leg, she tap dances better

00:32:34.695 --> 00:32:35.355
than me.

Anita:

00:32:35.930 --> 00:32:37.290
And she was like, "I can't do this."

00:32:37.290 --> 00:32:37.950
I'm going,

00:32:38.250 --> 00:32:39.690
I can do this. We're gonna both do

00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:41.450
this. And then we did a little soft

00:32:41.450 --> 00:32:43.370
shoe. I mean, thanks to Mom, I was

00:32:43.370 --> 00:32:44.750
trained in tap, ballet,

00:32:45.050 --> 00:32:45.550
modern

00:32:46.010 --> 00:32:47.870
jazz. I had all that training.

00:32:48.385 --> 00:32:50.865
So when the artificial leg came into the

00:32:50.865 --> 00:32:53.105
picture, I just used that. And then I

00:32:53.105 --> 00:32:55.345
also have danced with companies just on one

00:32:55.345 --> 00:32:57.285
leg. The big somethingatron

00:32:57.985 --> 00:32:59.285
in Times Square,

00:33:00.145 --> 00:33:02.085
those big screens once had

00:33:02.560 --> 00:33:04.820
me from the waist down in this white,

00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:05.380
flowy

00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:08.400
skirt and my leg, just me on a

00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:10.560
pedestal for an hour dancing on one leg.

00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:11.620
And there I was,

00:33:12.800 --> 00:33:13.620
the Jumbotron

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:15.540
in Times Square,

00:33:16.195 --> 00:33:18.675
my leg and my skirt and my foot.

00:33:18.675 --> 00:33:21.015
I was like, that's me! That's me!

Rachel:

00:33:21.555 --> 00:33:23.095
It was the "Leg of Courage."

Rachel:

00:33:23.555 --> 00:33:25.575
The "Leg of Courage, of Courage."

Anita:

00:33:26.595 --> 00:33:28.860
So true. So true. Just one last thing,

00:33:28.940 --> 00:33:30.940
and I want Rachel to talk because she's

00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:32.000
incredibly extraordinary.

00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:33.820
Just that if you wanted to know any

00:33:33.820 --> 00:33:35.840
more about me, it would be anitahollander.com.

00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:38.300
And all of this stuff is

00:33:38.300 --> 00:33:40.060
in there. You can see anything you want,

00:33:40.060 --> 00:33:41.600
plus a great photo

00:33:42.135 --> 00:33:45.495
that Susan Rosenberg Jones, the photographer, took of

00:33:45.495 --> 00:33:49.175
me with my, with my biceps out and

00:33:49.175 --> 00:33:50.775
just standing on one leg on the pier

00:33:50.775 --> 00:33:53.015
of the Hudson River. I love the picture.

00:33:53.015 --> 00:33:56.530
That's the cover of the website. So anitahollander.com.

Kate:

00:33:56.590 --> 00:33:57.090
Okay.

00:33:57.390 --> 00:34:00.210
Well, what the website doesn't capture

00:34:00.590 --> 00:34:02.690
so much is your sense of humor

00:34:02.990 --> 00:34:04.370
and the lightness

00:34:04.670 --> 00:34:07.150
that comes with this and the passion that

00:34:07.150 --> 00:34:09.170
you have for performing and advocacy

00:34:09.765 --> 00:34:12.185
and everything that you do, directing, etc.

00:34:12.565 --> 00:34:15.445
And that is what's so wonderful about hearing

00:34:15.445 --> 00:34:16.185
you speak.

Anita:

00:34:16.965 --> 00:34:18.665
Thank you. Thank you.

00:34:19.525 --> 00:34:22.005
Coffee is a wonderful thing. 

00:34:22.005 --> 00:34:22.905
We never give her coffee. Never, ever give her coffee.

Iris:

00:34:23.370 --> 00:34:26.750
Stop drinking coffee today.

Rachel:

00:34:27.770 --> 00:34:30.250
We do this family Zoom thing because we've

00:34:30.250 --> 00:34:32.090
got family in New York. We had family

00:34:32.090 --> 00:34:34.270
in southern Ohio. We have family in Denver.

00:34:34.490 --> 00:34:35.470
And then here.

00:34:35.945 --> 00:34:37.865
When COVID hit, I said well, let's use

00:34:37.865 --> 00:34:39.865
Zoom. So we started doing a weekly family

00:34:39.865 --> 00:34:42.905
Zoom, which we're still doing every Saturday. And

00:34:42.905 --> 00:34:45.005
the joke is we all know when Anita's

00:34:45.065 --> 00:34:45.805
had coffee.

00:34:46.425 --> 00:34:48.265
And we all start texting her: Put the

00:34:48.265 --> 00:34:51.320
coffee down. Just step away from the coffee.

Kate:

00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:54.420
Yeah. It can do a number on you

00:34:54.420 --> 00:34:55.800
sometimes, that caffeine.

00:34:57.220 --> 00:34:58.920
I had two today, so I know.

Iris:

00:34:59.860 --> 00:35:00.680
We noticed.

Kate:

00:35:05.395 --> 00:35:07.175
Anyway, Rachel.

Rachel:

Yes.

00:35:07.555 --> 00:35:08.935
"From There to Here."

00:35:09.555 --> 00:35:10.295
I am

00:35:11.155 --> 00:35:12.775
two-thirds through. I love this booik.

Rachel:

00:35:13.075 --> 00:35:15.015
Thank you.

Kate:

00:35:15.475 --> 00:35:15.975
So why 

00:35:16.275 --> 00:35:18.435
don't you just start? Why did you

00:35:18.435 --> 00:35:19.175
write it?

Rachel:

00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:21.840
So the book was birthed

00:35:22.620 --> 00:35:23.600
right at COVID,

00:35:24.700 --> 00:35:26.380
but it was something that I'd been working

00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:27.680
on for seven years.

00:35:28.220 --> 00:35:30.400
I, I wanted to write a book about

00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:32.960
how I learned to live with depression

00:35:33.795 --> 00:35:35.715
because that's the operative word, how to live

00:35:35.715 --> 00:35:38.515
with it, not suffer from it. I don't

00:35:38.515 --> 00:35:40.995
have it. I certainly don't own it, and

00:35:40.995 --> 00:35:42.135
it doesn't own me.

00:35:42.435 --> 00:35:44.195
It's a button for me when people say,

00:35:44.195 --> 00:35:46.115
"I suffer from depression." I'm like, you don't

00:35:46.115 --> 00:35:46.775
have to.

00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:47.900
You can struggle.

00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:49.580
You can wrestle,

00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.000
and you live with it every day. So

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.560
I started thinking, I want to write this book.

00:35:55.560 --> 00:35:56.060
And

00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:58.220
then it just became this big behemoth,

00:35:58.840 --> 00:35:59.660
the book.

00:36:00.325 --> 00:36:01.925
And so I was like I can't do

00:36:01.925 --> 00:36:03.785
it. And my wonderful

00:36:04.965 --> 00:36:07.685
beloved friend, Joanie, said to me, "Do me

00:36:07.685 --> 00:36:08.265
a favor.

00:36:08.725 --> 00:36:10.885
Write me two pages on what it feels

00:36:10.885 --> 00:36:12.240
like when you wake up in the morning."

00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:14.880
I said okay. So I did that. I

00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:16.800
sent it to her. She goes, "Great. Write

00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.540
two pages

00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.860
on what's your best coping mechanism."

00:36:20.560 --> 00:36:21.920
Like, okay. So I did that. And she

00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.080
goes, "Now write me two or three pages,

00:36:24.080 --> 00:36:25.380
a story from your childhood."

00:36:26.055 --> 00:36:27.575
And I said okay. And I did that,

00:36:27.575 --> 00:36:29.195
and she said, "This is your book.

00:36:29.815 --> 00:36:30.875
Just start writing

00:36:31.575 --> 00:36:32.395
short pieces.

00:36:32.935 --> 00:36:34.535
What's it like when you feel like you

00:36:34.535 --> 00:36:36.135
can't get out of bed? What's a good

00:36:36.135 --> 00:36:36.795
day like?

00:36:37.175 --> 00:36:38.715
And then throw in some memoir,

00:36:39.270 --> 00:36:39.770
childhood

00:36:40.470 --> 00:36:42.630
stories, stories of going to Italy, stories of

00:36:42.630 --> 00:36:44.010
doing the Grand Canyon,

00:36:44.550 --> 00:36:45.610
people you miss,

00:36:46.070 --> 00:36:48.070
people that are gone from your life that

00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:50.390
are precious to you. Just start writing two

00:36:50.390 --> 00:36:52.875
to three pages each. Keep it short." 

00:36:52.875 --> 00:36:54.635
So over the course of about seven years, I

00:36:54.635 --> 00:36:56.795
just started doing this and then collecting them,

00:36:56.795 --> 00:36:58.415
and then I would send them to her.

00:36:58.955 --> 00:36:59.695
And she

00:36:59.995 --> 00:37:00.815
would sort of

00:37:01.115 --> 00:37:02.415
put them in an order

00:37:02.715 --> 00:37:04.175
or section them off.

00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:06.420
And then at some point, I was like,

00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:07.400
I have to stop.

00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.780
I have to stop writing because I've got

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:10.760
all this stuff.

00:37:11.140 --> 00:37:13.780
And so that's when I found medium.com,

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:16.340
which is this excellent website. It's like YouTube

00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:17.000
for writers.

00:37:17.425 --> 00:37:19.265
And so you can publish whatever you want

00:37:19.265 --> 00:37:20.865
there. So I thought, all right. I'm going to put

00:37:20.865 --> 00:37:22.945
a cap on the book. That's it. That's

00:37:22.945 --> 00:37:24.785
what goes in the book. Then I can

00:37:24.785 --> 00:37:27.045
just keep writing whatever comes up.

00:37:27.345 --> 00:37:29.665
And with the help of Joanie and the

00:37:29.665 --> 00:37:32.005
wonderful Dina Rubin, who was my editor,

00:37:32.330 --> 00:37:33.230
and the magnificent

00:37:33.850 --> 00:37:36.030
Victoria Price, who designed the cover,

00:37:36.490 --> 00:37:38.570
helped me choose the font, which I call

00:37:38.570 --> 00:37:41.050
mommy font because I picked a font that

00:37:41.050 --> 00:37:43.310
my mom could read. 

Iris:

Thank you. Thank you.

Rachel:

00:37:43.690 --> 00:37:45.865
I didn't like Times New Roman. I wanted

00:37:45.865 --> 00:37:48.505
something a little prettier but readable, so we went

00:37:48.505 --> 00:37:50.825
with mommy font. Victoria is a published author,

00:37:50.825 --> 00:37:52.425
and I asked her, maybe I should send

00:37:52.425 --> 00:37:54.265
it to publishers? And she said, "They're gonna

00:37:54.265 --> 00:37:55.945
want to make changes." And I said, okay, then

00:37:55.945 --> 00:37:58.150
no. Let's self-publish. So we went to

00:37:58.150 --> 00:38:00.070
48 Hour Books. Great company. If you're

00:38:00.070 --> 00:38:01.610
writing a book, use them.

00:38:01.910 --> 00:38:04.010
And then the book came.

00:38:04.470 --> 00:38:06.230
Like, it was birthed, and I was holding

00:38:06.230 --> 00:38:07.990
it in my hand. And it was like,

00:38:07.990 --> 00:38:10.465
here it is. Here's my baby. And then

00:38:10.465 --> 00:38:12.005
the strangest thing happened.

00:38:13.665 --> 00:38:15.925
The boxes of books arrived at my apartment,

00:38:16.145 --> 00:38:17.985
and I had a list of people to

00:38:17.985 --> 00:38:20.225
send them to. And all of a sudden,

00:38:20.225 --> 00:38:21.285
I started crying.

00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.080
And I was like, wait. What's going on?

00:38:24.080 --> 00:38:25.940
And so I stepped away from the table,

00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.640
and I kinda curled up on my bed.

00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:30.240
And at that time, I had my beloved

00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:31.380
Maddie, my companion

00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:32.260
pup.

00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:34.420
And I was like, why am I crying?

00:38:35.405 --> 00:38:38.045
And I realized that there was a little

00:38:38.045 --> 00:38:39.345
tiny part of me.

00:38:39.725 --> 00:38:41.665
The little 10-year-old Rachel

00:38:43.405 --> 00:38:45.905
thought that once this was out,

00:38:46.285 --> 00:38:47.760
the depression would be gone.

00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:50.320
I didn't think it, but a little part

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.240
of me thought that once the book's published,

00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:55.120
then I'm better. I'm done. It's over. You

00:38:55.120 --> 00:38:56.260
know? And it wasn't

00:38:56.720 --> 00:38:58.240
even as I was packing the books, it

00:38:58.240 --> 00:39:00.080
was like that stuff was still there, and

00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:00.740
I thought,

00:39:01.315 --> 00:39:03.175
well, that's why you wrote the book, Rachel,

00:39:04.595 --> 00:39:07.315
because you're living with it. It's the worst

00:39:07.315 --> 00:39:07.815
roommate

00:39:08.355 --> 00:39:08.855
ever.

00:39:09.635 --> 00:39:12.435
Doesn't do laundry, leaves dishes in the sink,

00:39:12.435 --> 00:39:14.275
lays on the couch playing games on her

00:39:14.275 --> 00:39:16.695
phone all day. Worst roommate.

00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:18.840
However, it's my roommate,

00:39:19.220 --> 00:39:19.720
so

00:39:20.180 --> 00:39:21.380
I get to learn how to live with

00:39:21.380 --> 00:39:23.220
it. That was the big lesson. Now the

00:39:23.220 --> 00:39:26.020
book is 4 years old and still doing

00:39:26.020 --> 00:39:28.100
quite well just on my own, just getting

00:39:28.100 --> 00:39:30.485
it out there. 

Kate:

00:39:30.865 --> 00:39:31.365
It's a beautiful book and

00:39:31.825 --> 00:39:33.045
not depressing.

00:39:33.505 --> 00:39:36.085
There are some tough things in it,

00:39:36.545 --> 00:39:37.205
of course,

00:39:38.225 --> 00:39:39.765
and it's also

00:39:40.705 --> 00:39:41.205
funny.

00:39:42.210 --> 00:39:43.430
You have a really

00:39:43.810 --> 00:39:44.790
good way

00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:48.530
of putting things, and there's a lot

00:39:48.530 --> 00:39:49.190
of spirituality

00:39:49.490 --> 00:39:50.950
in it. Love that.

00:39:51.810 --> 00:39:54.530
So I want to talk about specific places

00:39:54.530 --> 00:39:56.975
that I had marked. On page 

00:39:56.975 --> 00:39:57.475
103,

00:39:58.575 --> 00:40:00.355
you were asked a question.

00:40:00.975 --> 00:40:03.875
"So, Rachel, how do you fill your days?"

Rachel:

00:40:04.095 --> 00:40:05.075
Oh, that question.

00:40:05.935 --> 00:40:08.335
So I've been living in Alaska and had

00:40:08.335 --> 00:40:10.420
not planned to leave, and then

00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:13.280
I had to leave. My life changed, and

00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:14.960
it was no longer a place I could

00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:15.460
be.

00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:18.000
So Maddie and I got in the car,

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.040
and we drove from Anchorage to Ithaca, New

00:40:21.040 --> 00:40:23.780
York. We were gonna move to Eugene, Oregon.

00:40:24.175 --> 00:40:26.655
And Joanie, my friend Joanie said, "Why are

00:40:26.655 --> 00:40:28.655
you moving to Eugene?" And I said it

00:40:28.655 --> 00:40:31.055
sounds like a pretty place. Joanie said, "Do

00:40:31.055 --> 00:40:33.055
you know anyone there?" And I said no.

00:40:33.055 --> 00:40:34.915
And she goes, "Yeah, you're moving to Ithaca."

00:40:36.170 --> 00:40:37.770
'Cause I was not in a good space.

00:40:37.770 --> 00:40:39.370
And she was like, "If you move somewhere

00:40:39.370 --> 00:40:40.730
where you don't know anyone, we're going to

00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:42.590
lose you." 

Kate:

00:40:42.970 --> 00:40:43.470
What an amazing friend she has been.

Rachel:

00:40:43.770 --> 00:40:46.190
Oh, she's astounding.

Kate:

00:40:46.490 --> 00:40:49.975
Yes. Joanie. My goodness. She's brilliant. And she

00:40:49.975 --> 00:40:52.555
knows you so well. 

Rachel:

00:40:52.775 --> 00:40:53.835
Yeah. I'm blessed with wonderful friends,

00:40:54.135 --> 00:40:55.115
wonderful, lifelong

00:40:55.415 --> 00:40:55.915
friends.

00:40:56.375 --> 00:40:57.675
So we moved to Ithaca,

00:40:58.055 --> 00:40:59.895
and I was so lost, and I kept

00:40:59.895 --> 00:41:01.975
saying I can't find my feet. Like, I

00:41:01.975 --> 00:41:04.535
can't find my feet. There was no grounding

00:41:04.535 --> 00:41:05.280
in my life.

00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.360
And so after 10 months in Ithaca, I

00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:08.420
moved to Cleveland

00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.320
where I said I would never come back

00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.720
to. I moved home. 

Kate:

00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:14.180
I wasn't ever planning to come back either. 

Rachel:

00:41:14.640 --> 00:41:17.620
Oh, gosh, never come back. Yeah, and I wasn't employed,

00:41:17.680 --> 00:41:20.315
and I didn't have a college degree, and

00:41:20.315 --> 00:41:23.035
I didn't have direction, and I was really

00:41:23.035 --> 00:41:24.735
in a dangerous space.

00:41:25.195 --> 00:41:28.015
And my mom, doing her philanthropy, kept saying,

00:41:28.155 --> 00:41:29.915
I need a plus-one to this event.

00:41:29.915 --> 00:41:31.355
I need a plus-one to this event.

00:41:31.355 --> 00:41:33.410
So I started going to all these events

00:41:33.410 --> 00:41:35.490
with her, and I don't know that she

00:41:35.490 --> 00:41:37.890
knows this, but I would lie when people

00:41:37.890 --> 00:41:39.910
would ask me, "What do you do?"

00:41:40.450 --> 00:41:41.590
I hate that question.

00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:43.650
Hate it. And so they would say, "So,

00:41:43.650 --> 00:41:44.625
what do you do?" And I would be,

00:41:44.705 --> 00:41:47.285
oh, I'm a freelance photographer for National Geographic.

00:41:47.985 --> 00:41:49.685
I counsel young children.

00:41:50.225 --> 00:41:52.485
I was making up all these things that I did. 

Kate:

00:41:53.025 --> 00:41:54.485
Sounds good.

Rachel:

00:41:54.865 --> 00:41:56.625
I didn't wanna say, what do I do?

00:41:56.865 --> 00:41:58.860
I spend hours on my couch crying. What

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.860
do you do? You know, like, what was

00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:01.760
I gonna say?

00:42:02.220 --> 00:42:03.900
And so we went to this event for

00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.820
the Centers for Family and Children. My mom

00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:07.120
was donating a patio or a courtyard.

Iris:

00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:10.140
Yeah, the courtyard. That is

00:42:10.140 --> 00:42:10.640
lovely.

Rachel:

00:42:11.025 --> 00:42:13.125
And I was standing there dressed nicely,

00:42:13.825 --> 00:42:16.465
dreading the question, "So, Rachel, what do you

00:42:16.465 --> 00:42:18.405
do?" And Lee Fisher,

00:42:19.025 --> 00:42:21.045
famous Ohioan and wonderful

00:42:21.425 --> 00:42:21.925
gentleman,

00:42:22.465 --> 00:42:23.985
my mom knows his wife, and so she

00:42:23.985 --> 00:42:25.590
was like, "I want to introduce you to Peggy

00:42:25.590 --> 00:42:27.270
and Lee." I was like, oh, God, here

00:42:27.270 --> 00:42:28.790
we go. Now I'm gonna embarrass myself in

00:42:28.790 --> 00:42:29.770
front of Lee Fisher.

00:42:30.310 --> 00:42:32.230
And he took my hand in both of

00:42:32.230 --> 00:42:33.690
his hands, and he said,

00:42:34.310 --> 00:42:35.130
"So, Rachel,

00:42:35.830 --> 00:42:37.290
how do you fill your days?"

00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:40.330
And I started crying.

00:42:41.035 --> 00:42:42.415
I just started crying.

00:42:42.875 --> 00:42:44.715
Oh my God. And I said that is

00:42:44.715 --> 00:42:47.435
the best question I've ever been asked. And

00:42:47.435 --> 00:42:48.655
I said, I write.

00:42:48.955 --> 00:42:51.275
I play music. I sing. I walk my

00:42:51.275 --> 00:42:51.775
dog.

00:42:52.315 --> 00:42:53.375
I talk to friends.

00:42:54.580 --> 00:42:56.280
I plan. I make plans.

00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:58.660
Suddenly, I had a list of answers to

00:42:58.660 --> 00:43:00.900
that question where, "What do you do?" I

00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.040
had no answers,

00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:05.540
and that changed everything. 

Iris:

00:43:05.540 --> 00:43:07.480
That's why he's the dean of Baldwin Wallace. Yeah. He's

00:43:07.940 --> 00:43:10.200
a wonderful man. Just wonderful.

Kate:

00:43:10.555 --> 00:43:12.175
And the best question ever.

Rachel:

00:43:12.875 --> 00:43:14.555
Yeah. And so when the book came out,

00:43:14.555 --> 00:43:16.315
all these people said, "I'm gonna start using

00:43:16.315 --> 00:43:18.415
that." So now there's, like, tons of people

00:43:18.475 --> 00:43:19.455
all over the country

00:43:19.915 --> 00:43:21.835
and some in the world who are now

00:43:21.835 --> 00:43:23.435
saying, "How do you fill your days?" instead

00:43:23.435 --> 00:43:24.715
of "What do you do?" And I love

00:43:24.715 --> 00:43:26.790
that legacy. And I should clarify when you

00:43:26.790 --> 00:43:28.710
said the book is somewhat spiritual, I usually

00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:29.930
go by Reverend Rachel.

00:43:30.310 --> 00:43:33.430
I'm an InterFaith/InterSpiritual minister. And so that

00:43:33.430 --> 00:43:35.290
is a big part of my life.

Kate:

00:43:35.830 --> 00:43:36.330
Absolutely.

00:43:37.110 --> 00:43:37.610
It's

00:43:38.470 --> 00:43:40.170
spiritual though. It's not

00:43:42.025 --> 00:43:42.525
religious.

Rachel:

00:43:42.905 --> 00:43:44.505
I spend a lot of time saying I'm

00:43:44.505 --> 00:43:46.105
not that kind of minister. I say I'm

00:43:46.105 --> 00:43:48.265
Reverend Rachel. Don't worry. I'm not that kind of minister. 

Kate:

00:43:48.265 --> 00:43:50.505
Is there anything more you want

00:43:50.505 --> 00:43:53.405
to say about living with depression?

Rachel:

00:43:54.250 --> 00:43:55.690
So when I wrote the book, I wanted

00:43:55.690 --> 00:43:57.770
it to be a user's guide. I wanted

00:43:57.770 --> 00:43:59.690
it to be a manual, not something you

00:43:59.690 --> 00:44:01.150
read and then put on the shelf.

00:44:01.530 --> 00:44:03.850
Keep it handy. Use it. Write notes in

00:44:03.850 --> 00:44:06.110
it. It's literally a user's guide

00:44:06.965 --> 00:44:08.905
to surviving, to "surthriving,"

00:44:09.205 --> 00:44:11.065
as I like to say, the word "surthrival."

00:44:14.165 --> 00:44:16.585
It's important to be kind

00:44:16.885 --> 00:44:17.545
to ourselves.

00:44:18.165 --> 00:44:19.765
There have been moments, I mean there's still

00:44:19.765 --> 00:44:22.210
moments, obviously, because I live with it, where

00:44:22.210 --> 00:44:24.770
I go into the darkness, and my mom

00:44:24.770 --> 00:44:26.550
will say, "Read your book.

00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:28.390
Go read your book."

00:44:28.770 --> 00:44:30.210
And so I do. I pick it up.

00:44:30.210 --> 00:44:31.890
I open it to a random page, and

00:44:31.890 --> 00:44:33.030
I'm like, right.

00:44:33.410 --> 00:44:35.030
It's important to remember

00:44:35.330 --> 00:44:37.350
that we live with a lot,

00:44:38.715 --> 00:44:39.535
and not

00:44:39.835 --> 00:44:42.155
one thing needs to knock us down. My

00:44:42.155 --> 00:44:44.735
sister, Anita, lived with cancer

00:44:45.195 --> 00:44:45.695
and

00:44:46.315 --> 00:44:48.895
"conquered" it. I'm putting that in air quotes.

00:44:49.115 --> 00:44:51.595
There are people who live with diabetes. There

00:44:51.595 --> 00:44:54.690
are people who live with grief. We live

00:44:54.690 --> 00:44:58.130
with so much, especially these days, we're living

00:44:58.130 --> 00:44:58.950
with chaos.

00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:02.390
If we let all of that

00:45:02.690 --> 00:45:04.770
wash over us like a tsunami and go

00:45:04.770 --> 00:45:05.270
down,

00:45:05.905 --> 00:45:06.965
we won't survive.

Iris:

00:45:07.505 --> 00:45:09.765
I'm just gonna say we live with loss.

00:45:10.225 --> 00:45:10.725
Friends,

00:45:11.105 --> 00:45:11.605
husbands,

00:45:12.145 --> 00:45:12.645
mothers,

00:45:13.025 --> 00:45:13.525
fathers,

00:45:13.905 --> 00:45:15.525
that's part of everybody's

00:45:16.465 --> 00:45:17.685
life. 

Kate:

00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.100
Yes. Part of the human existence.

Iris:

Exactly. 

Kate:

00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:21.940
We're here temporarily.

Anita:

00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:25.860
Yes. A little boy in Alabama asked me

00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:28.820
at the end of the show down there.

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:30.580
Little boy. He said,

00:45:31.045 --> 00:45:32.105
"How many people

00:45:32.805 --> 00:45:33.785
die of disability?"

00:45:34.965 --> 00:45:37.445
And so I talked to him gently about

00:45:37.445 --> 00:45:39.385
how everybody on the stage

00:45:39.685 --> 00:45:41.225
lives with disability.

00:45:41.685 --> 00:45:43.145
Everybody's gonna die,

00:45:43.450 --> 00:45:45.710
but we are not dying of our disability.

00:45:45.850 --> 00:45:48.510
We're living with disability, which is exactly

00:45:48.890 --> 00:45:51.450
what Rachel is saying. And this happened just

00:45:51.450 --> 00:45:53.950
a few days ago when this boy

00:45:54.410 --> 00:45:56.635
was very concerned about this. And I was

00:45:56.635 --> 00:45:58.795
like, we don't die of a disability. We

00:45:58.795 --> 00:45:59.935
live with a disability.

Iris:

00:46:00.315 --> 00:46:01.375
Perfect answer.

00:46:01.675 --> 00:46:03.375
I saw this. I was watching.

00:46:03.835 --> 00:46:05.195
And, first of all, that he had the

00:46:05.195 --> 00:46:07.595
courage to ask that question, but that you

00:46:07.595 --> 00:46:10.335
answered it in such a clear way

00:46:11.120 --> 00:46:13.300
that I'm sure that he left feeling

00:46:13.600 --> 00:46:14.100
uplifted.

Rachel:

00:46:15.120 --> 00:46:17.380
Also, the thing about living with is

00:46:17.680 --> 00:46:18.660
you have choices.

00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.460
If you live with depression, you have choices

00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:23.355
all the time. There's a part in the

00:46:23.355 --> 00:46:25.515
book we talked about the summit, this meeting

00:46:25.515 --> 00:46:28.235
I had in meditation with God and my

00:46:28.235 --> 00:46:29.375
dad who had passed.

00:46:29.755 --> 00:46:31.915
And the discussion was, you know, are you

00:46:31.915 --> 00:46:33.215
staying or are you going?

00:46:34.475 --> 00:46:34.975
And

00:46:36.100 --> 00:46:37.860
what I learned was, if you stay, you

00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:38.600
have choices.

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:41.140
If you go, that's the last choice you

00:46:41.140 --> 00:46:41.640
make.

00:46:44.100 --> 00:46:46.820
Okay. So as long as we're living with

00:46:47.060 --> 00:46:50.020
even when we're struggling and wrestling and, boy,

00:46:50.020 --> 00:46:50.920
do I wrestle.

00:46:51.315 --> 00:46:53.875
I wrestle with depression a lot. I jokingly

00:46:53.875 --> 00:46:56.035
call myself Jacob because, you know, Jacob wrestling

00:46:56.035 --> 00:46:57.875
with the angel and all that stuff in

00:46:57.875 --> 00:46:59.715
the Hebrew bible, but I wrestle with it

00:46:59.715 --> 00:47:01.735
all the time. I get mad at it.

00:47:02.035 --> 00:47:03.335
I have temper tantrums,

00:47:04.195 --> 00:47:05.815
and I'm still here.

00:47:06.330 --> 00:47:07.310
I'm still choosing.

Kate:

00:47:07.770 --> 00:47:08.270
All right.

00:47:08.890 --> 00:47:12.030
We were talking about loss. You shared some

00:47:12.890 --> 00:47:16.170
wisdom from your friend, Jimmy, who did pass

00:47:16.170 --> 00:47:17.790
on. 

Rachel:

Yeah. 

00:47:18.090 --> 00:47:20.045
And I would like, if you want,

00:47:20.345 --> 00:47:21.405
to talk about

00:47:22.185 --> 00:47:24.285
what he said about dealing with depression,

00:47:24.985 --> 00:47:27.245
how it's like a house of cards

00:47:28.025 --> 00:47:30.585
and that the cards get just a little

00:47:30.585 --> 00:47:31.725
slippery sometimes.

Rachel:

00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:33.980
Yeah. He said this one day to me

00:47:33.980 --> 00:47:36.140
that depression is like building a house of

00:47:36.140 --> 00:47:38.160
cards, which is a fragile

00:47:39.020 --> 00:47:41.660
experience. And then sometimes those cards have a

00:47:41.660 --> 00:47:43.580
gloss on them and so they won't hold.

00:47:43.580 --> 00:47:45.600
And so it's slippery and the house falls

00:47:46.075 --> 00:47:48.235
And you just have to keep building. You

00:47:48.235 --> 00:47:49.535
just have to keep building.

00:47:50.075 --> 00:47:51.135
Jimmy was amazing.

00:47:51.835 --> 00:47:54.235
And I miss him every day. In fact,

00:47:54.235 --> 00:47:56.075
it'll be 12 years that he's gone next

00:47:56.075 --> 00:47:56.575
week.

Kate:

00:47:57.195 --> 00:47:59.675
And he died pretty young. 

Rachel:

00:47:59.675 --> 00:48:01.435
He was 48, the same age as my dad. 

Kate:

00:48:01.435 --> 00:48:01.890
Oh, my goodness,

00:48:02.370 --> 00:48:05.270
such a young age to go. 

Iris:

00:48:05.730 --> 00:48:08.770
Absolutely. And it'll be 50 years since Dad's been

00:48:08.770 --> 00:48:11.750
gone this September, and we can't believe that

00:48:12.210 --> 00:48:13.590
at all. 

Rachel and Anita:

00:48:14.050 --> 00:48:14.550
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

00:48:14.885 --> 00:48:16.885
But Jimmy and I, we would sit and

00:48:16.885 --> 00:48:19.205
talk a lot about just how do we

00:48:19.205 --> 00:48:20.885
keep ourselves here? How do we help each

00:48:20.885 --> 00:48:23.225
other? How do we continue on? And

00:48:23.525 --> 00:48:25.445
so I hear him. There's an area in

00:48:25.445 --> 00:48:27.145
my living room that I call the protector

00:48:27.205 --> 00:48:27.705
area,

00:48:28.350 --> 00:48:31.710
and it's pictures and souvenirs and items from

00:48:31.710 --> 00:48:33.230
all the people who have gone. And, of

00:48:33.230 --> 00:48:34.930
course, it's only growing

00:48:35.630 --> 00:48:37.410
because that's the nature of life.

00:48:37.710 --> 00:48:39.150
So I'll talk to Jimmy all the time.

00:48:39.150 --> 00:48:40.545
I'll be sitting at the piano, and I'll

00:48:40.625 --> 00:48:41.905
be singing, and I'll look over and I'll

00:48:41.905 --> 00:48:43.905
go, okay. This one's for you, bud, this

00:48:43.905 --> 00:48:44.885
one's for you.

00:48:45.425 --> 00:48:47.205
And they actually wrote a song.

00:48:47.585 --> 00:48:49.345
I was playing a song that I'd written

00:48:49.345 --> 00:48:50.165
for my dad.

00:48:51.105 --> 00:48:53.445
And, okay, first of all, not psychotic,

00:48:53.970 --> 00:48:54.710
not psychotic.

00:48:56.690 --> 00:48:58.450
But I was sitting at the piano, and

00:48:58.450 --> 00:48:59.350
they said,

00:48:59.890 --> 00:49:01.030
"Where's our song?"

00:49:01.810 --> 00:49:03.090
And I was like, well, you know how

00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:05.010
songwriting works for me. I don't write the

00:49:05.010 --> 00:49:05.510
songs.

00:49:05.825 --> 00:49:07.585
I receive the songs, and I write them

00:49:07.585 --> 00:49:10.065
down. I take dictation from whoever is writing

00:49:10.065 --> 00:49:11.665
the song. So I said, so if you

00:49:11.665 --> 00:49:12.405
want a

00:49:12.705 --> 00:49:14.625
song, you write it. I'll write it down.

00:49:14.625 --> 00:49:17.025
And they did. And so there's a song

00:49:17.025 --> 00:49:19.730
called "Never Alone," and they each get a

00:49:19.730 --> 00:49:21.330
moment in that song where I get to

00:49:21.330 --> 00:49:22.710
talk about all of my protectors.

Kate:

00:49:23.330 --> 00:49:24.390
Oh, that's marvelous.

Iris:

00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:27.650
Okay. Can I add to that? 

Rachel:

Yeah. 

00:49:27.650 --> 00:49:29.110
May I add to that? 

Rachel:

Okay.

Iris:

00:49:29.730 --> 00:49:31.510
I'm not psychotic either,

Anita:

00:49:33.105 --> 00:49:35.105
None of us are psychotic, okay?

Iris:

00:49:35.105 --> 00:49:36.805
None of us are psychotic. Well,

00:49:37.185 --> 00:49:38.485
maybe some of us are.

00:49:38.945 --> 00:49:39.445
But

00:49:39.905 --> 00:49:41.845
I've lost two wonderful husbands,

00:49:42.385 --> 00:49:44.225
and I always said that they wouldn't have

00:49:44.225 --> 00:49:47.025
liked each other. They were totally different, but

00:49:47.025 --> 00:49:48.725
they both loved me,

00:49:49.130 --> 00:49:50.670
and that made them special.

00:49:51.130 --> 00:49:53.850
So I do something like what Rachel does

00:49:53.850 --> 00:49:54.670
with Jimmy.

00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:57.210
I imagine both of them sitting at a

00:49:57.210 --> 00:49:58.030
card table

00:49:58.330 --> 00:49:58.990
up there,

00:50:00.090 --> 00:50:02.350
barely talking to each other. But

00:50:02.695 --> 00:50:03.595
if I fall

00:50:03.975 --> 00:50:05.675
or if I can't find something,

00:50:06.375 --> 00:50:08.235
one says to the other, okay,

00:50:08.615 --> 00:50:10.775
you take this one, I'll take the next.

00:50:10.775 --> 00:50:11.835
And, by God,

00:50:12.375 --> 00:50:14.775
I find what I'm looking for. In fact,

00:50:14.775 --> 00:50:16.855
I just found my bracelet the other day.

00:50:16.855 --> 00:50:18.800
I had lost it. And I said, okay,

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:19.300
guys.

00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:21.520
And I opened a drawer, and there was

00:50:21.520 --> 00:50:23.520
my bracelet. And so I said, thank you,

00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:24.740
guys. Now I know

00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.540
not everybody wants to do this,

00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:28.900
and not everybody

00:50:29.680 --> 00:50:31.600
thinks it's ... I don't tell many people, but

00:50:31.600 --> 00:50:33.525
I'm telling, oy, how many people are listening?

Kate:

Who knows.

Rachel:

00:50:33.525 --> 00:50:35.545
You're telling a lot of people. 

Iris:

00:50:35.605 --> 00:50:37.305
Okay, try to forget what I'm saying.

00:50:38.005 --> 00:50:40.025
But honestly, it is so

00:50:40.965 --> 00:50:41.465
comforting

00:50:42.485 --> 00:50:45.205
to know that I still have them in

00:50:45.205 --> 00:50:45.865
my life.

00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:48.180
It feels good.

00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:51.060
They protect me. They help me.

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.700
And, you know, it's positive.

00:50:54.560 --> 00:50:56.960
So it's a way of adjusting to loss

00:50:57.200 --> 00:51:00.105
In a positive way instead of, you

00:51:00.105 --> 00:51:02.025
know, we all cry. We all weep. We

00:51:02.025 --> 00:51:03.165
all have our moments.

00:51:03.705 --> 00:51:05.385
But this is sort of a happy way

00:51:05.385 --> 00:51:06.445
to look at it.

Rachel:

00:51:06.985 --> 00:51:08.425
I wanted to share with you, Kate, that

00:51:08.425 --> 00:51:09.565
the joke about psychosis,

00:51:10.505 --> 00:51:13.230
I don't mean to belittle psychosis. Like, please

00:51:13.230 --> 00:51:15.170
know that I'm not making fun of anyone,

00:51:15.310 --> 00:51:17.490
but I've been through a lot of experiences

00:51:17.550 --> 00:51:18.290
with psychiatrists

00:51:18.590 --> 00:51:21.650
and therapists and the medical community. And

00:51:21.950 --> 00:51:23.870
the medical community has been great to me

00:51:23.870 --> 00:51:26.030
for some things. It has not been great

00:51:26.030 --> 00:51:29.525
for me regarding depression. They failed me in

00:51:29.525 --> 00:51:32.725
a big way, except, sorry, two therapists in

00:51:32.725 --> 00:51:33.225
Anchorage,

00:51:33.845 --> 00:51:36.485
Sarah, Tracy, love you both. However, one of

00:51:36.485 --> 00:51:39.125
the lessons that I learned was ever since

00:51:39.125 --> 00:51:40.725
I was very little, I have talked to

00:51:40.725 --> 00:51:42.640
God, not the big man in the sky

00:51:42.640 --> 00:51:44.580
with a lightning bolt, just the essence.

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.880
And I've always had an ongoing conversation. And

00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.400
then, you know, my dad passed when I

00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:49.140
was 12.

00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:51.840
So I spent a lot of time talking

00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:53.520
with him, and now I talk with Jimmy

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:55.620
and Carl, Amy, Michael, everybody.

00:51:56.645 --> 00:51:58.245
What I learned was when I would go

00:51:58.245 --> 00:51:59.865
for a psychiatric assessment,

00:52:00.565 --> 00:52:02.265
they would say, do you hear voices?

00:52:02.965 --> 00:52:05.465
And I would just smile and say, nope.

00:52:06.485 --> 00:52:09.685
Because I learned early on to say no.

00:52:09.685 --> 00:52:11.045
Because when I said yes

00:52:12.060 --> 00:52:13.500
at one point, I said, yes, I hear

00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:14.480
the voice of God.

00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:17.180
And I was put on an antipsychotic drug.

00:52:17.180 --> 00:52:19.260
And I'm like, no. You don't, you don't

00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:21.180
hear the voice of God? Doesn't everybody hear

00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:23.340
that? Like, it wasn't a thing. It wasn't

00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:25.200
an illness. It wasn't a defect.

00:52:25.575 --> 00:52:28.235
So now, "Do you hear voices?" Absolutely not.

00:52:28.615 --> 00:52:29.995
Because they don't get it.

00:52:30.295 --> 00:52:32.955
They don't get it. 

Kate:

00:52:33.735 --> 00:52:34.235
I think in professional capacities,

00:52:35.015 --> 00:52:38.535
people kind of divorce themselves so often from

00:52:38.535 --> 00:52:39.675
that spiritual

00:52:40.055 --> 00:52:40.555
realm.

00:52:41.060 --> 00:52:42.280
And my goodness,

00:52:42.580 --> 00:52:43.720
it's the way

00:52:44.740 --> 00:52:45.880
to get through

00:52:46.580 --> 00:52:49.060
so much. And that is what I want

00:52:49.060 --> 00:52:51.140
to talk about right now. The three

00:52:51.140 --> 00:52:51.800
of you

00:52:52.180 --> 00:52:53.000
are so

00:52:53.815 --> 00:52:54.315
creative

00:52:54.935 --> 00:52:57.675
and funny and good and kind,

00:52:58.295 --> 00:52:58.795
and

00:52:59.815 --> 00:53:02.235
you could have gone any way south

00:53:02.775 --> 00:53:05.195
after having that devastating loss

00:53:06.310 --> 00:53:10.230
when your father died so young. And you,

00:53:10.230 --> 00:53:12.950
Iris, I've known you the longest, and I

00:53:12.950 --> 00:53:15.690
just love the joy that you embody.

00:53:16.230 --> 00:53:19.050
And he died at 48,

00:53:19.535 --> 00:53:20.995
and you had four girls.

Iris:

00:53:21.375 --> 00:53:23.215
Yes. I was gonna say there's two more

00:53:23.215 --> 00:53:26.575
creative ones out there. 

Kate:

Yes. 

Iris:

00:53:26.575 --> 00:53:28.915
My mom, whom I adored and who was in Vaudeville and

00:53:29.055 --> 00:53:30.595
was charming and fun,

00:53:31.055 --> 00:53:33.075
she passed away when I was 16,

00:53:33.775 --> 00:53:34.675
breast cancer.

00:53:35.510 --> 00:53:38.010
And she was only 45

00:53:38.390 --> 00:53:39.450
when she passed.

00:53:40.070 --> 00:53:43.290
And so I learned early what loss was,

00:53:43.830 --> 00:53:45.930
and I never got over that.

00:53:46.310 --> 00:53:47.910
I mean, at this moment, I could burst

00:53:47.910 --> 00:53:48.730
into tears.

00:53:49.205 --> 00:53:51.545
However, my mother, like my two husbands,

00:53:52.245 --> 00:53:55.045
they hang around, and I like that. And

00:53:55.045 --> 00:53:58.245
I will never stop. People might say, "Why

00:53:58.245 --> 00:53:59.305
are you doing that?"

00:54:00.085 --> 00:54:02.105
And I say because it's comforting.

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:03.620
It's joy.

00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:05.860
They had wonderful lives

00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:08.320
for the short times both Dad and my

00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:09.540
mom lived.

00:54:10.160 --> 00:54:11.620
Their lives were beautiful.

00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.220
Thank God. I mean, literally, thank God.

00:54:15.625 --> 00:54:18.585
So I'm content to say they're part of

00:54:18.585 --> 00:54:19.565
my life now,

00:54:20.025 --> 00:54:22.025
and I only wish they could play with

00:54:22.025 --> 00:54:23.085
my great-grandchildren

00:54:23.785 --> 00:54:24.925
who are a hoot.

Rachel:

00:54:25.225 --> 00:54:26.845
So my mom was 42

00:54:27.385 --> 00:54:29.490
when my dad passed. I was 12. She

00:54:29.490 --> 00:54:30.470
was 42.

00:54:31.890 --> 00:54:34.370
And she had gone from her parents' house,

00:54:34.370 --> 00:54:36.770
her dad's house, to my dad's house. That's

00:54:36.770 --> 00:54:38.610
not saying she wasn't accomplished. She was very

00:54:38.610 --> 00:54:40.790
accomplished. She went to school. She had degrees.

00:54:41.090 --> 00:54:41.590
However,

00:54:42.335 --> 00:54:44.035
she was also a mom.

00:54:44.575 --> 00:54:45.075
And

00:54:45.775 --> 00:54:47.695
when my dad was gone, she'd never written

00:54:47.695 --> 00:54:48.355
a check.

00:54:48.895 --> 00:54:51.295
We needed a new refrigerator. She freaked out.

00:54:51.295 --> 00:54:52.675
How do you buy a refrigerator?

Iris:

00:54:53.295 --> 00:54:54.815
A new car. Oh, my God. A new car!

Rachel:

00:54:54.815 --> 00:54:56.575
And then the camper. My dad had

00:54:56.575 --> 00:54:57.235
bought this.

Iris:

Yes.

Rachel:

00:54:57.535 --> 00:54:59.910
My dad had achieved the dream of

00:54:59.910 --> 00:55:01.610
his life. He bought this camper,

00:55:02.230 --> 00:55:03.510
and she now had to learn how to

00:55:03.510 --> 00:55:05.510
drive it.  

Iris:

00:55:05.510 --> 00:55:07.590
It was a motor home. 

Rachel:

Yeah.

Iris:

I took off every stop sign as I went by.

Rachel:

00:55:07.590 --> 00:55:09.350

I'm in the passenger side. She's

00:55:09.350 --> 00:55:10.710
going, "Oh, my God, the mirrors are gonna

00:55:10.710 --> 00:55:11.830
take off the stop sign!" I'm like, you're

00:55:11.830 --> 00:55:13.270
fine. "No. No, they're gonna..." I'm like, you're

00:55:13.270 --> 00:55:13.935
fine. I'm

00:55:14.335 --> 00:55:15.775
looking. But there were these things that she

00:55:15.775 --> 00:55:17.615
had to do, plus she had two daughters

00:55:17.615 --> 00:55:18.275
in college,

00:55:19.535 --> 00:55:22.675
one in high school and little fragile me

00:55:23.055 --> 00:55:25.455
at 12 who wasn't telling her anything that

00:55:25.455 --> 00:55:27.420
was going on in my head. I was

00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:27.920
already

00:55:28.460 --> 00:55:29.920
deeply aware of the depression,

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:33.740
and deeply haunted and not saying anything to

00:55:33.740 --> 00:55:35.740
anybody. So we had all this going on,

00:55:35.740 --> 00:55:37.440
and she was carrying all of this.

00:55:39.125 --> 00:55:39.785
Talk about that.

Iris:

00:55:40.245 --> 00:55:43.625
Do I have to? 

Rachel:

No. 

Iris:

Thank you.

Rachel:

00:55:44.165 --> 00:55:45.685
But it was a lot. It was a

00:55:45.685 --> 00:55:46.745
lot. He was

00:55:47.045 --> 00:55:47.865
a rock

00:55:48.565 --> 00:55:50.185
of a human being.

00:55:50.485 --> 00:55:52.985
He was, like, the cornerstone of our family.

00:55:53.205 --> 00:55:54.690
I think I can say that confidently. I

00:55:54.690 --> 00:55:56.050
mean, I was 12, so he was my

00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:56.550
cornerstone.

00:55:57.410 --> 00:55:59.410
And the absence of him was like a

00:55:59.410 --> 00:56:01.190
huge, gaping abyss.

Iris:

00:56:01.730 --> 00:56:03.110
I called it my umbrella.

00:56:03.730 --> 00:56:05.030
He was our umbrella.

00:56:06.765 --> 00:56:08.625
He just took care of all of us,

00:56:09.005 --> 00:56:10.685
and he died of a heart attack at

00:56:10.685 --> 00:56:13.105
the tennis court. So we weren't prepared.

00:56:13.405 --> 00:56:16.685
Totally numb. 

Kate:

So sudden like that. 

Iris:

00:56:16.685 --> 00:56:19.165
My mom died after a couple years of

00:56:19.165 --> 00:56:22.120
illness and couple weeks of dying.

00:56:22.740 --> 00:56:24.580
Buddy went to play tennis, and next thing

00:56:24.580 --> 00:56:26.280
I knew, I was called by the hospital,

00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:27.800
and he was gone.

00:56:28.180 --> 00:56:28.680
So,

00:56:29.380 --> 00:56:31.400
consequently, what happened to the girls

00:56:32.615 --> 00:56:33.755
was shocking,

00:56:34.535 --> 00:56:36.715
but they also each became sick.

00:56:37.095 --> 00:56:39.575
The first one was a month after

00:56:39.575 --> 00:56:42.075
Dad died. Celia got spinal meningitis

00:56:42.935 --> 00:56:43.675
in college,

00:56:44.055 --> 00:56:45.675
and we almost lost her.

00:56:45.975 --> 00:56:46.715
And then

00:56:47.310 --> 00:56:47.810
Lisa

00:56:48.350 --> 00:56:51.010
got erythema nodosum, whatever that was,

00:56:51.390 --> 00:56:54.670
and then Anita got cancer, and Rachel had

00:56:54.670 --> 00:56:56.830
a nervous breakdown. And Rachel ended up in a

00:56:56.830 --> 00:56:57.330
psychiatric

00:56:57.630 --> 00:56:59.090
hospital in New York.

00:56:59.390 --> 00:57:01.825
And when I look at my life, God

00:57:01.825 --> 00:57:02.565
bless me,

00:57:02.865 --> 00:57:04.805
I am blessed because I have all...

00:57:05.265 --> 00:57:07.025
I shouldn't even say it, but I have

00:57:07.025 --> 00:57:07.925
the four girls.

00:57:08.305 --> 00:57:10.945
And each time, there was some moment in

00:57:10.945 --> 00:57:12.465
my life when I was not going to have them.

Rachel:

00:57:12.465 --> 00:57:14.625
And you got pneumonia. 

Iris:

00:57:14.625 --> 00:57:17.390
Oh, yeah. Well, that was a gift. I needed pneumonia.

00:57:17.530 --> 00:57:19.370
I needed pneumonia so I could go to bed.

Rachel:

00:57:19.370 --> 00:57:21.850
She had pneumonia, and I was,

00:57:21.850 --> 00:57:23.610
I think I was still either in

00:57:23.610 --> 00:57:25.210
junior high or high school, but I learned

00:57:25.210 --> 00:57:27.230
years later that my three older sisters

00:57:27.610 --> 00:57:29.290
were having a conversation about "What are we

00:57:29.290 --> 00:57:30.910
gonna do with Rachel if Mom

00:57:31.385 --> 00:57:33.405
succumbs to pneumonia?" Here I was

00:57:33.865 --> 00:57:36.265
12, 13, 14. I was afraid to leave

00:57:36.265 --> 00:57:37.945
the house because every time I left the

00:57:37.945 --> 00:57:40.425
house, somebody got deathly ill. 

Iris:

00:57:40.425 --> 00:57:43.005
It was a terrible time for all of us.

00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:45.960
And I did keep journals. You know, I'm

00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.580
a writer kind of person,

00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:48.380
so

00:57:48.680 --> 00:57:50.600
I look back at my journals, and I

00:57:50.600 --> 00:57:51.660
must tell everybody,

00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:55.240
keep journals. And the reason I say this

00:57:55.240 --> 00:57:56.940
is when you read the words

00:57:57.275 --> 00:57:58.975
that you wrote at the moment

00:57:59.595 --> 00:58:00.655
you wrote them,

00:58:01.035 --> 00:58:03.915
it's different from writing years later and saying,

00:58:03.915 --> 00:58:05.915
"I remember when I was 15 and blah

00:58:05.915 --> 00:58:08.075
blah blah blah blah." And I want to

00:58:08.075 --> 00:58:09.915
tell one that I love to tell because

00:58:09.915 --> 00:58:11.135
the girls love it.

00:58:11.700 --> 00:58:13.220
I was 15 and a half

00:58:13.220 --> 00:58:14.600
when we started

00:58:14.980 --> 00:58:16.520
at Anshe Chesed Temple

00:58:17.140 --> 00:58:19.800
because my dad knew my mother was dying,

00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:21.800
and we needed a rabbi.

00:58:22.820 --> 00:58:24.580
So we joined. At that time, it was

00:58:24.580 --> 00:58:27.080
Euclid Avenue Temple, but it was Anshe Chesed.

00:58:27.495 --> 00:58:30.375
The very first service that we attended was

00:58:30.375 --> 00:58:31.595
a Hanukkah service.

00:58:32.295 --> 00:58:33.915
I was 15 and a half.

00:58:34.295 --> 00:58:36.795
I noticed this good-looking guy,

00:58:37.335 --> 00:58:38.935
and I didn't think much of it. And

00:58:38.935 --> 00:58:41.995
afterwards, we were introduced, and he was introduced

00:58:42.055 --> 00:58:42.715
to me.

00:58:43.310 --> 00:58:45.010
He became my husband.

00:58:45.550 --> 00:58:48.770
So my whole life began at 15 and a half

00:58:49.070 --> 00:58:49.890
at Temple.

00:58:50.270 --> 00:58:52.930
He, of course, was 22 years old,

00:58:53.790 --> 00:58:55.250
so we won't go there.

Anita:

00:58:56.335 --> 00:58:58.575
Well, he probably thought she was 22

00:58:58.575 --> 00:59:00.755
because she looked like a model in Glamour. 

Iris:

00:59:01.215 --> 00:59:03.215
My family felt that I was safer with

00:59:03.215 --> 00:59:05.695
him than with an 18-year-old horny

00:59:05.695 --> 00:59:06.355
guy. 

Rachel:

00:59:08.335 --> 00:59:09.955
They behaved. They behaved.

Iris:

00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:11.960
I didn't know my mom was dying, by

00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:14.200
the way. I thought she was ill, but

00:59:14.200 --> 00:59:15.100
I didn't know.

00:59:15.640 --> 00:59:16.620
It was in

00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:19.080
June or July. She died in August. I

00:59:19.080 --> 00:59:21.400
was in 10th grade then. He, of course,

00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:22.460
was in law school.

00:59:23.080 --> 00:59:25.080
But I came home, and my mother said

00:59:25.080 --> 00:59:26.915
to me, "I got flowers

00:59:27.215 --> 00:59:28.355
from my son-in-law."

00:59:29.055 --> 00:59:31.475
And I thought, she's ill, she's

00:59:32.335 --> 00:59:35.055
hallucinating. And I said, really, Mom? And who

00:59:35.055 --> 00:59:36.675
sent them? And she said, "Buddy."

00:59:37.215 --> 00:59:38.035
And that was

00:59:38.495 --> 00:59:41.120
my husband-to-be, the man I met.

Rachel:

00:59:41.120 --> 00:59:42.880
You were gonna talk about what you wrote

00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.900
in your journal. 

Iris:

00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:47.060
Oh, my journal. Yes. So I wrote 

00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:48.020
in the journal about

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:49.700
three months later.

00:59:50.640 --> 00:59:53.115
I was dating Buddy. He was taking me

00:59:53.115 --> 00:59:55.755
out every Saturday night. He finally figured out

00:59:55.755 --> 00:59:56.815
how old I was.

00:59:57.435 --> 00:59:58.415
He was shocked.

00:59:58.715 --> 01:00:00.655
He thought I was in high school,

01:00:00.715 --> 01:00:03.055
a senior maybe. I was in 10th grade.

01:00:04.875 --> 01:00:06.875
Years later, I decided the reason he liked

01:00:06.875 --> 01:00:09.400
me so much was that if he at

01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:10.220
22

01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:12.540
was dating girls at 20,

01:00:13.080 --> 01:00:14.460
they would want to get married. I was 16, 17.  

Kate:

01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.800
You just wanted to graduate from high school!

Iris:

01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:20.300
I just wanted to finish my homework!

01:00:21.655 --> 01:00:24.215
I have a paper to write for 11th

01:00:24.215 --> 01:00:26.375
grade. And so I

01:00:26.375 --> 01:00:27.675
was a safe bet.

01:00:28.135 --> 01:00:29.895
But I wrote in my journal about three

01:00:29.895 --> 01:00:31.275
months into the dating,

01:00:31.655 --> 01:00:33.515
and it goes something like this:

01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:36.500
"I really like Bud.

01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.200
I think I could be in love with

01:00:39.200 --> 01:00:39.700
him

01:00:40.080 --> 01:00:42.480
as much as a 15-year-old girl

01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:44.800
knows about love." I wrote that, and I

01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:47.225
never could have written that two months later.

01:00:47.445 --> 01:00:49.445
I had to write it the night that

01:00:49.445 --> 01:00:51.365
I wrote that I was in love. And

01:00:51.365 --> 01:00:53.205
really, I mean, I get chills even now

01:00:53.205 --> 01:00:55.605
when I say it. So everybody write what

01:00:55.605 --> 01:00:58.345
you do every day because it's precious.

Rachel:

01:00:58.725 --> 01:01:00.985
My favorite of her journal entries is,

01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:03.980
"Buddy Hollander called tonight to ask me to

01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:06.220
the dance. I'm so excited." It was their first date.

Iris:

01:01:06.220 --> 01:01:08.060
And then I tripped over

01:01:08.060 --> 01:01:09.600
something and broke my toe.

Kate:

01:01:10.940 --> 01:01:12.780
At the dance? 

Iris:

01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:14.860
No, on the way to the phone. My mother said, 

01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:17.475
"Bud's on the phone," and I ran to get it. And

01:01:17.475 --> 01:01:19.795
I hit my foot, and I'm crying into

01:01:19.795 --> 01:01:22.835
the phone because I broke my toe. 

Kate:

Oh, my goodness. 

Rachel:

01:01:22.835 --> 01:01:25.575
The coolest thing about my dad

01:01:25.635 --> 01:01:27.175
for me now is

01:01:27.555 --> 01:01:29.895
that I look exactly like him.

Iris:

01:01:30.275 --> 01:01:31.955
She truly does. 

Rachel:

01:01:31.955 --> 01:01:32.695
And when I wake up in the morning

01:01:33.290 --> 01:01:34.730
and I don't have my glasses on, I'm

01:01:34.730 --> 01:01:36.810
kinda groggy and I stumble into the bathroom.

01:01:36.810 --> 01:01:38.170
When I turn on the light, it's like,

01:01:38.170 --> 01:01:38.990
yo, Dad!

01:01:39.530 --> 01:01:40.890
But I get to see what my dad

01:01:40.890 --> 01:01:43.370
would have looked like had he aged past

01:01:43.370 --> 01:01:44.190
48,

01:01:44.330 --> 01:01:46.275
and it's such a gift. I'm like, oh,

01:01:46.275 --> 01:01:48.535
there you are. You're in my face.

Anita:

01:01:49.235 --> 01:01:51.555
I think there's one thing that Mom hasn't

01:01:51.555 --> 01:01:52.055
mentioned,

01:01:52.515 --> 01:01:55.155
and that is because all of us got

01:01:55.155 --> 01:01:57.255
sick, she became a fierce

01:01:57.635 --> 01:01:58.135
bulldog.

01:01:58.650 --> 01:01:59.950
People at the Neurological

01:02:00.250 --> 01:02:02.030
Institute in New York City

01:02:02.490 --> 01:02:06.570
and Columbia Presbyterian Hospital warned each other about

01:02:06.570 --> 01:02:08.890
this woman because a lot of doctors told

01:02:08.890 --> 01:02:10.410
me there was nothing wrong with me. It

01:02:10.410 --> 01:02:12.430
took nine months and 10 doctors

01:02:13.055 --> 01:02:15.055
to get a diagnosis that I had cancer

01:02:15.055 --> 01:02:16.575
in my leg. Everybody was saying, "What are

01:02:16.575 --> 01:02:18.495
you here for? There's nothing wrong. Lose some

01:02:18.495 --> 01:02:19.795
weight." Stuff like that.

01:02:20.095 --> 01:02:23.295
But my mom was not having any of

01:02:23.295 --> 01:02:23.795
it,

01:02:24.095 --> 01:02:25.855
and she just kept taking me to more

01:02:25.855 --> 01:02:28.120
doctors, taking me to more doctors. As far

01:02:28.120 --> 01:02:30.040
as she was concerned, "My daughter's in pain.

01:02:30.040 --> 01:02:31.880
She's never been in pain like this before.

01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:33.960
I know that she would never even talk

01:02:33.960 --> 01:02:35.560
about something if she wasn't in that much

01:02:35.560 --> 01:02:36.060
pain."

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.660
She was so fierce that at a certain

01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:40.620
point, she

01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.585
went up that elevator, to the top floor, chief

01:02:43.585 --> 01:02:45.605
surgeon at the Neurological Institute,

01:02:45.985 --> 01:02:48.485
marched into his office past the receptionist,

01:02:48.785 --> 01:02:50.865
and laid into him, so that from then

01:02:50.865 --> 01:02:51.365
on

01:02:51.905 --> 01:02:54.005
nobody ever wanted to mess with my mom.

Iris:

01:02:54.625 --> 01:02:57.070
Thank you. Yes. That's true. 

Rachel:

01:02:57.070 --> 01:02:58.750
And you also did it for Celia when she had spinal

01:02:58.750 --> 01:03:01.230
meningitis. 

Iris:

Oh my God, yeah. 

Anita:

01:03:01.230 --> 01:03:03.150
If nothing came out of that, all of

01:03:03.150 --> 01:03:05.390
the pain and the sorrow and the loss,

01:03:05.390 --> 01:03:06.610
it was that Mom

01:03:07.550 --> 01:03:08.050
was fierce. Really fierce.

Rachel:

01:03:08.415 --> 01:03:10.975
I just wanna say it

01:03:10.975 --> 01:03:12.815
started right away. 

Iris:

01:03:12.815 --> 01:03:15.055
It did. It was a month after Dad died. 

Rachel:

01:03:15.055 --> 01:03:17.855
Well, no. For me, it was the week after. I just started

01:03:17.855 --> 01:03:20.675
seventh grade at Byron Junior High School, which

01:03:21.010 --> 01:03:23.090
some people say is called Shaker Middle School,

01:03:23.090 --> 01:03:25.730
but I refuse. It's Byron Junior High School.

01:03:25.730 --> 01:03:28.050
And I just started seventh grade, and my

01:03:28.050 --> 01:03:30.310
homeroom teacher, I will not say her name,

01:03:30.450 --> 01:03:32.450
but my homeroom teacher was having us fill

01:03:32.450 --> 01:03:34.130
out the census cards. You know, we had

01:03:34.130 --> 01:03:36.055
to do those census cards, and I didn't

01:03:36.055 --> 01:03:38.135
know my dad's work address. So I was

01:03:38.135 --> 01:03:39.655
like, I don't know. And she said, "Well,

01:03:39.655 --> 01:03:40.315
go home

01:03:40.855 --> 01:03:42.935
and get his work address and then bring

01:03:42.935 --> 01:03:43.595
it back."

01:03:43.895 --> 01:03:45.355
And that night, he died.

01:03:46.375 --> 01:03:48.135
So I didn't go back to school the

01:03:48.135 --> 01:03:50.295
next day. It was a Wednesday. Friday was

01:03:50.295 --> 01:03:50.875
the funeral.

01:03:51.450 --> 01:03:53.710
So I walked back into school on Monday,

01:03:53.770 --> 01:03:55.610
barely. I mean, I got halfway down the

01:03:55.610 --> 01:03:57.770
street, came back home. My mom dragged me

01:03:57.770 --> 01:03:58.430
to school.

01:04:00.170 --> 01:04:02.670
I walked into homeroom, and this woman

01:04:03.450 --> 01:04:05.450
walked down the aisle with the census card,

01:04:05.450 --> 01:04:07.125
put it on my desk, and said, "Just

01:04:07.125 --> 01:04:08.885
draw a line through your dad's name and

01:04:08.885 --> 01:04:09.705
write deceased."

Kate:

01:04:10.805 --> 01:04:13.445
Oh my gosh. 

Rachel:

01:04:13.445 --> 01:04:15.625
And I got up, walked out of the room, walked to 

01:04:15.685 --> 01:04:18.265
the counselor's office. God bless Miss Kay Brower.

Anita:

Kay Brower.

Rachel:

01:04:18.965 --> 01:04:20.345
Give her a blessing.

01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:22.960
And I told her what happened, and I

01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:24.720
just sat in a chair and cried. And

01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:26.880
she called my mom, and my mom came

01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:27.380
down.

01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:31.140
Had a moment with my homeroom teacher.

01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:33.440
And the next day when I showed up

01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:35.600
for school, I said, do I still have

01:04:35.600 --> 01:04:37.575
to...? She said, "It's all taken care of."

01:04:38.115 --> 01:04:39.095
So it started days after. 

Iris:

01:04:39.795 --> 01:04:42.835
Well, that's what's so remarkable because

01:04:42.835 --> 01:04:44.935
I was basically not shy

01:04:45.395 --> 01:04:48.115
but quiet. I hardly raised my voice.

01:04:48.115 --> 01:04:49.095
I didn't swear.

01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:51.640
I started to swear the day that Dad

01:04:51.640 --> 01:04:52.140
died.

01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:54.440
I'd swear like a sailor. 

Kate:

You had a lot to swear about.

Iris:

01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:56.600
Honestly, I didn't know where

01:04:56.600 --> 01:04:58.520
the words were coming from because I'd never,

01:04:58.680 --> 01:05:00.360
I wouldn't even let you guys swear at

01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:03.000
home. You could swear outside, but you couldn't

01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:04.140
swear in the house.

01:05:04.455 --> 01:05:06.155
Oh, my God. I was terrible.

01:05:06.695 --> 01:05:08.475
But that's what happened.

01:05:08.775 --> 01:05:09.675
And, yeah,

01:05:09.975 --> 01:05:12.135
I became a lioness. That's what I call

01:05:12.135 --> 01:05:14.135
it. I was a lioness. 

Anita:

Yeah. Now that

01:05:14.135 --> 01:05:16.455
I'm thinking about it, in second grade when

01:05:16.455 --> 01:05:18.260
I got a C in science, the only

01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:19.640
C I'd ever gotten

01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:22.420
and the vice principal had said to me,

01:05:22.420 --> 01:05:24.580
"You know, you're probably never gonna do better

01:05:24.580 --> 01:05:25.720
than a C because

01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:28.820
you're, you're ...

Iris:

You're average," she told me. 

Anita:

01:05:28.820 --> 01:05:30.740
I went home and told Mom, don't worry, I'm

01:05:30.740 --> 01:05:32.975
just average. She marched me right back to

01:05:32.975 --> 01:05:35.475
school. So she was a fierce mama lion

01:05:35.935 --> 01:05:37.855
from way back. But she was this

01:05:37.855 --> 01:05:40.595
charming woman. Any social situation,

01:05:40.895 --> 01:05:42.035
charming, beautiful.

01:05:42.415 --> 01:05:42.915
Until someone crossed

01:05:43.295 --> 01:05:45.455
the line. At 8 years old, when

01:05:45.455 --> 01:05:46.895
I got that report card and got that

01:05:46.895 --> 01:05:47.715
little message

01:05:48.015 --> 01:05:50.390
from the vice principal, she marched me into

01:05:50.390 --> 01:05:52.250
her office and said, "Don't you ever,

01:05:52.870 --> 01:05:53.370
ever

01:05:53.750 --> 01:05:56.950
tell my daughter what she can't do." She

01:05:56.950 --> 01:06:00.230
died shortly after. 

Iris:

It wasn't my fault! 

Anita:

01:06:00.230 --> 01:06:02.710
From then on, and you got to understand that

01:06:02.710 --> 01:06:04.695
there was a time when I was thought

01:06:04.695 --> 01:06:06.615
to be a klutz. I was thought to

01:06:06.615 --> 01:06:08.695
be not very bright. I ended up being an

01:06:08.695 --> 01:06:09.595
honor student.

01:06:09.975 --> 01:06:12.295
Months after that little event of "I'm not

01:06:12.295 --> 01:06:15.015
smart enough," I got a professional job. Nobody

01:06:15.015 --> 01:06:16.395
else at Mercer School was doing professional theater

01:06:16.455 --> 01:06:16.955
in

01:06:18.380 --> 01:06:19.680
second grade. Nobody.

01:06:20.460 --> 01:06:23.660
And so she taught me that nobody

01:06:23.660 --> 01:06:26.140
tells you that stuff. Getting cancer, losing

01:06:26.140 --> 01:06:28.380
my hair, losing my leg was like I'd

01:06:28.380 --> 01:06:29.840
already had so

01:06:30.380 --> 01:06:32.560
much my training from my mom.

01:06:33.135 --> 01:06:34.975
All the loss she suffered didn't really make

01:06:34.975 --> 01:06:37.795
her into that mighty fierce human being. But

01:06:38.175 --> 01:06:40.735
she had that tool inside her, which she used

01:06:40.735 --> 01:06:41.555
very carefully.

01:06:42.255 --> 01:06:44.575
She was kind and generous and loving and

01:06:44.575 --> 01:06:46.435
charming to everybody. But

01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:47.620
when necessary,

01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:50.560
she could be the most fierce person on

01:06:50.560 --> 01:06:52.480
the planet. Don't get me wrong. She wasn't

01:06:52.480 --> 01:06:54.560
a theater mom. We'd go to an audition.

01:06:54.560 --> 01:06:55.380
She'd say,

01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:57.360
"If you want to do this, I will

01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:59.335
take you. But it's for the experience." The

01:06:59.335 --> 01:07:01.015
whole "Sound of Music" audition was just me

01:07:01.015 --> 01:07:03.015
and Celia went because it would be fun.

01:07:03.015 --> 01:07:04.315
It would be a great experience.

01:07:04.615 --> 01:07:06.695
Neither of us expected anything out of it,

01:07:06.695 --> 01:07:09.015
and my life has been like that. 

Rachel:

01:07:09.015 --> 01:07:10.635
So my "Sound of Music" story,

01:07:11.175 --> 01:07:12.775
because we all have a "Sound of Music"

01:07:12.775 --> 01:07:15.150
story, was my dad was driving my sister

01:07:15.150 --> 01:07:15.650
Lisa

01:07:16.030 --> 01:07:17.710
to audition for "Sound of Music." And I

01:07:17.710 --> 01:07:19.470
said, oh, can I go along? So I'm

01:07:19.470 --> 01:07:21.550
sitting in the car and he's driving and

01:07:21.550 --> 01:07:23.150
he said, "So what are you singing for

01:07:23.150 --> 01:07:25.230
your audition?" And I said, oh, I'm not

01:07:25.230 --> 01:07:27.170
trying out. Lisa's trying out. And he goes,

01:07:27.385 --> 01:07:29.405
"We're going to a 'Sound of Music' audition.

01:07:29.625 --> 01:07:31.805
You're trying out. What are you gonna sing?"

01:07:31.945 --> 01:07:33.725
So I sang "You Are My Sunshine"

01:07:34.905 --> 01:07:36.685
because I didn't have anything prepared.

01:07:36.985 --> 01:07:38.745
And Lisa and I both got cast. She

01:07:38.745 --> 01:07:40.285
was Louisa. I was Brigitte.

01:07:41.180 --> 01:07:43.360
And then the next year, I was upgraded

01:07:43.420 --> 01:07:45.660
to Louisa at a different production. 

Iris:

01:07:45.660 --> 01:07:47.840
The one thing I used to tell them, because

01:07:48.140 --> 01:07:49.900
it hurts when you audition and you think

01:07:49.900 --> 01:07:51.420
you've done a good job and then they

01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:53.340
pass you over. I always say, it's not

01:07:53.340 --> 01:07:55.695
that you did a bad audition. It's just

01:07:55.695 --> 01:07:57.635
that they were looking for something

01:07:58.255 --> 01:08:00.895
else, and it's not your fault. It's their

01:08:00.895 --> 01:08:02.035
choice. 

01:08:02.335 --> 01:08:04.035
I would have picked you, of course.

01:08:04.975 --> 01:08:07.155
But it's a way of looking at rejection.

01:08:07.775 --> 01:08:08.915
It's not rejection.

01:08:09.700 --> 01:08:11.000
It's a different choice.

Kate:

01:08:11.380 --> 01:08:11.880
Absolutely.

01:08:12.420 --> 01:08:13.960
And it's all part of

01:08:15.060 --> 01:08:16.120
us creating

01:08:16.740 --> 01:08:19.940
our reality, creating great lives. And the cards

01:08:19.940 --> 01:08:21.860
you've been dealt have not always been the

01:08:21.860 --> 01:08:22.360
best.

Rachel:

01:08:22.815 --> 01:08:24.275
We're so grateful

01:08:25.135 --> 01:08:27.775
because of what we have had and what

01:08:27.775 --> 01:08:28.995
we do have. We are

01:08:29.615 --> 01:08:30.915
incredibly blessed

01:08:31.455 --> 01:08:34.415
with amazing lives. I have wonderful nieces and

01:08:34.415 --> 01:08:36.755
nephews and grand-nieces and nephews,

01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.040
And I had a wonderful pup that was

01:08:40.040 --> 01:08:43.080
my companion. 

Kate:

When did Maddie pass on? 

Rachel:

01:08:43.080 --> 01:08:43.580
Maddie passed

01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:47.100
two years ago February. And as I

01:08:47.480 --> 01:08:49.160
I like to tell people, she was the

01:08:49.160 --> 01:08:50.300
healthiest relationship

01:08:50.645 --> 01:08:52.245
I've ever had with a being that I

01:08:52.245 --> 01:08:53.385
shared a bed with.

01:08:55.445 --> 01:08:57.605
She was my best pal and my best

01:08:57.605 --> 01:08:59.925
companion. However, we talk about these stories, and

01:08:59.925 --> 01:09:01.225
some of them sound horrific.

01:09:01.685 --> 01:09:04.245
And yet, we have been so blessed with

01:09:04.245 --> 01:09:05.845
so much, and I'm gonna use the P

01:09:05.845 --> 01:09:08.770
word, so much privilege in our lives to

01:09:08.910 --> 01:09:10.430
have grown up the way we did, to

01:09:10.430 --> 01:09:12.190
have been able to go to college, to

01:09:12.190 --> 01:09:14.990
have been able to have each other. We

01:09:14.990 --> 01:09:17.950
are so so so lucky. So even amidst

01:09:17.950 --> 01:09:19.250
like the horror stories,

01:09:20.245 --> 01:09:22.185
our horror stories in the grand perspective,

01:09:22.725 --> 01:09:24.725
it's not a horror story. 

Kate:

01:09:24.725 --> 01:09:26.105
And you talk about gratitude a lot.

Rachel:

01:09:26.485 --> 01:09:28.805
I talk about gratitude a lot. I do.

Anita:

01:09:28.805 --> 01:09:31.605
We continue to sing together and make music

01:09:31.605 --> 01:09:34.345
together as well. I mean, we've done several

01:09:35.070 --> 01:09:39.310
temple services at various temples where I've written

01:09:39.310 --> 01:09:42.270
music for Shabbat services for the Village Temple

01:09:42.270 --> 01:09:43.710
here in New York, and I've brought it

01:09:43.710 --> 01:09:46.530
to Ohio. And we've made music together, and

01:09:46.590 --> 01:09:47.890
Holland joins us.

01:09:48.590 --> 01:09:49.090
But

01:09:49.605 --> 01:09:51.765
a shout-out to Lisa and Celia who

01:09:51.765 --> 01:09:54.405
are not on this interview. Lisa, who became

01:09:54.405 --> 01:09:56.805
a lawyer, which was one part of my

01:09:56.805 --> 01:09:57.305
dad's

01:09:57.845 --> 01:10:00.085
life that, thank God, she was the one

01:10:00.085 --> 01:10:02.325
who latched on to that. And she's the

01:10:02.325 --> 01:10:03.865
one who has provided grandsons,

01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:06.460
sons and grandsons.

01:10:07.240 --> 01:10:09.080
These are things that are foreign to us.

01:10:09.080 --> 01:10:12.940
And Celia plays every musical instrument ever made,

01:10:13.160 --> 01:10:14.700
and has continued

01:10:15.400 --> 01:10:17.925
to astound us with what she does with

01:10:17.925 --> 01:10:21.205
music. And her beautiful late husband, Charlie. They

01:10:21.205 --> 01:10:23.765
helped me so much when I was doing

01:10:23.765 --> 01:10:25.685
my writing. They would do a lot of

01:10:25.685 --> 01:10:28.425
technical stuff and make the music

01:10:28.965 --> 01:10:32.310
looking all digitized and beautiful. So it's a

01:10:32.310 --> 01:10:35.610
whole family of gifts and that we still

01:10:35.750 --> 01:10:37.990
Zoom together and love each other and share

01:10:37.990 --> 01:10:39.930
our families with each other

01:10:40.310 --> 01:10:43.050
is a huge blessing. And also,

01:10:43.430 --> 01:10:45.690
I too feel that enormous gratitude

01:10:46.070 --> 01:10:48.125
for all of us. 

Rachel:

01:10:48.125 --> 01:10:49.345
I like to say that life is a pilgrimage,

01:10:50.365 --> 01:10:52.865
and our lives have each been these fascinating

01:10:53.005 --> 01:10:55.405
pilgrimages and where they've led us and where

01:10:55.405 --> 01:10:57.645
we've gone to and how sometimes our paths

01:10:57.645 --> 01:10:59.485
have crossed over each other and sometimes our

01:10:59.485 --> 01:11:01.665
paths have gone in completely different directions.

01:11:02.040 --> 01:11:05.500
But it's always this pilgrimage experience of life.

Iris:

01:11:06.200 --> 01:11:08.840
Yeah. We have one motto that I love

01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:09.420
to say,

01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:11.740
that if you help one person,

01:11:12.280 --> 01:11:14.600
you help many like a ripple in a

01:11:14.600 --> 01:11:17.555
pond. So whether it's money or a gift

01:11:17.555 --> 01:11:20.375
of yourself or a song you've written,

01:11:21.075 --> 01:11:23.475
it goes on to spread out like a

01:11:23.475 --> 01:11:24.695
ripple in a pond.

Kate:

01:11:25.475 --> 01:11:26.295
That's beautiful.

01:11:27.075 --> 01:11:29.415
So I want to end with two things.

01:11:29.830 --> 01:11:30.330
One

01:11:31.110 --> 01:11:33.530
is a little bit about knitting,

01:11:34.310 --> 01:11:37.050
and the other is Anita's song.

Iris:

01:11:37.590 --> 01:11:39.690
Oh, well, this is just real fast.

01:11:40.070 --> 01:11:42.950
Seventeen years ago, I founded a little knitting

01:11:42.950 --> 01:11:45.505
group at our local Beachwood Library

01:11:45.965 --> 01:11:47.265
and wonderful women,

01:11:48.045 --> 01:11:49.825
people I never would have met otherwise,

01:11:50.205 --> 01:11:51.725
joined the group. So we have lots of

01:11:51.725 --> 01:11:53.485
fun and we do things, and what we're

01:11:53.485 --> 01:11:55.965
doing right now among all the knitting and

01:11:55.965 --> 01:11:56.465
crocheting

01:11:57.250 --> 01:11:59.970
and looming that we do, we make something

01:11:59.970 --> 01:12:02.610
that we call Get-A-Grip. It's made

01:12:02.610 --> 01:12:03.910
from plastic

01:12:05.090 --> 01:12:07.650
drawer liner, and you cut it into 6-

01:12:07.650 --> 01:12:10.070
inch squares, and then you crochet around it.

01:12:10.210 --> 01:12:11.190
And you open

01:12:11.655 --> 01:12:14.855
jars, you open pop bottles, anything that has

01:12:14.855 --> 01:12:15.755
to be unscrewed,

01:12:16.455 --> 01:12:19.195
you can unscrew it with this piece,

01:12:19.575 --> 01:12:21.575
and we've been giving it out to places

01:12:21.575 --> 01:12:24.875
like InMotion, which deals with Parkinson's disease,

01:12:25.015 --> 01:12:27.570
any place where people have trouble with their

01:12:27.570 --> 01:12:30.070
hands. We're called Yarn Over Beachwood,

01:12:30.770 --> 01:12:33.430
and we're located at the Beachwood Library.

01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:35.570
And if you ever need these, we'll make

01:12:35.570 --> 01:12:36.470
them for you

01:12:36.850 --> 01:12:38.310
for free. We donate,

01:12:38.755 --> 01:12:40.515
and then you can sell them and raise

01:12:40.515 --> 01:12:42.995
money for your group if you'd like. 

Kate:

01:12:42.995 --> 01:12:43.975
And they're very attractive.

Iris:

01:12:44.355 --> 01:12:46.455
Yes. They are. We try our best. 

Kate:

01:12:46.595 --> 01:12:49.255
Very, very nice. And I would be remiss

01:12:49.635 --> 01:12:52.435
in not mentioning the Statue of Liberty Club.

Iris:

01:12:52.435 --> 01:12:54.115
We don't have time for all that. 

Kate:

Just a little. 

Iris:

01:12:54.115 --> 01:12:57.230
Okay, in 1991, I decided

01:12:57.290 --> 01:13:00.010
I was a first-generation American because my

01:13:00.010 --> 01:13:02.510
mom was born in the Ukraine in Odessa

01:13:03.210 --> 01:13:05.690
and I was born here in the United

01:13:05.690 --> 01:13:08.270
States. So I was the first generation born

01:13:08.465 --> 01:13:11.365
in the United States of my family, and

01:13:11.745 --> 01:13:12.325
I became

01:13:12.945 --> 01:13:13.685
a collector

01:13:14.145 --> 01:13:15.925
of Statues of Liberty.

01:13:16.305 --> 01:13:18.625
I founded the club in 1991.

01:13:18.625 --> 01:13:22.060
It's called the statueoflibertyclub.org or

01:13:22.060 --> 01:13:24.000
.com, if you wanna look it up.

01:13:24.380 --> 01:13:27.260
And I donated my entire collection of Statues

01:13:27.260 --> 01:13:27.920
of Liberty

01:13:28.220 --> 01:13:30.860
to the Strong National Museum of Play in

01:13:30.860 --> 01:13:32.240
Rochester, New York.

Rachel:

01:13:32.780 --> 01:13:34.780
Can I toss one quick thing in? It's

01:13:34.780 --> 01:13:37.415
a shameless plug, but I've recently started my

01:13:37.415 --> 01:13:40.375
own spiritual center, and it's online on Zoom,

01:13:40.375 --> 01:13:42.075
second Sunday of every month.

01:13:42.535 --> 01:13:45.815
SpiritsHome, a simple spiritual community. And if

01:13:45.815 --> 01:13:49.815
you'd like information, go to my website, revrachelhollander.com,

01:13:49.815 --> 01:13:51.690
and there's all the information there. And you

01:13:51.690 --> 01:13:53.390
can also click the contact tab

01:13:53.770 --> 01:13:55.370
to check in with me and get on the

01:13:55.370 --> 01:13:57.690
mailing list. Our service, it's like 45

01:13:57.690 --> 01:14:00.010
minutes. I sing. I talk a little. It's

01:14:00.010 --> 01:14:01.790
not oppressive. It's not scary.

01:14:02.425 --> 01:14:04.525
It's open to everybody. Everybody's welcome.

Kate:

01:14:05.145 --> 01:14:06.125
Great.

01:14:08.425 --> 01:14:10.505
So would you tell us about the song

01:14:10.505 --> 01:14:12.905
a little bit before you get into it?

Anita:

01:14:12.905 --> 01:14:14.265
First of all, Mom, I need

01:14:14.265 --> 01:14:15.270
one of those things.

Iris:

01:14:15.670 --> 01:14:17.910
Oh, okay. I'll send them to you, honey.

Anita:

01:14:17.910 --> 01:14:20.650
Okay, good. Also, this hat that I'm wearing

01:14:20.790 --> 01:14:22.790
is one of my mom's hats. I've got

01:14:22.790 --> 01:14:25.190
one in every color and everywhere I go,

01:14:25.190 --> 01:14:27.030
"Where can I get one of those?" Because

01:14:27.030 --> 01:14:28.970
my mom makes those. She makes dolls

01:14:29.375 --> 01:14:31.615
and scarves and things for children in other

01:14:31.615 --> 01:14:33.235
countries who don't have

01:14:33.695 --> 01:14:36.095
the things they need. She doesn't just make

01:14:36.095 --> 01:14:37.395
things that help you open

01:14:38.255 --> 01:14:39.715
and screw jars.

Iris:

01:14:40.335 --> 01:14:42.610
We make them with love, sweetheart. Everything.

Kate:

01:14:42.990 --> 01:14:45.650
You make people happy too. 

Iris:

I hope so.

Anita:

01:14:46.110 --> 01:14:48.990
She does. She does. So this song I

01:14:48.990 --> 01:14:51.790
wrote for my dad 15 years ago. Fifteen

01:14:51.790 --> 01:14:54.210
years ago, Mom and Mort dedicated

01:14:55.310 --> 01:14:55.810
a theater

01:14:56.795 --> 01:14:59.595
on the grounds of Case Western Reserve out

01:14:59.595 --> 01:15:00.415
in the country,

01:15:00.955 --> 01:15:01.695
a barn,

01:15:02.235 --> 01:15:04.395
into something called, I think, the Silo Theater.

Iris:

01:15:04.395 --> 01:15:06.075
Right. That's right. 

Anita:

01:15:06.075 --> 01:15:07.615
It was made it into a theater, and it was dedicated

01:15:08.315 --> 01:15:11.150
to both my dad and to Phyllis November.

01:15:11.150 --> 01:15:12.530
And it was a dedication

01:15:12.990 --> 01:15:14.590
that we did for the theater. So I

01:15:14.590 --> 01:15:16.110
thought, well, I should write a song for

01:15:16.110 --> 01:15:18.930
it. My sisters sang it with me. And

01:15:18.990 --> 01:15:21.470
it was based on something that I have

01:15:21.470 --> 01:15:23.410
up on the wall that my dad,

01:15:23.870 --> 01:15:24.930
after he died

01:15:25.335 --> 01:15:26.775
in 1975,

01:15:26.775 --> 01:15:29.735
we found this piece of paper amongst his

01:15:29.735 --> 01:15:31.815
many, many pieces of paper as a lawyer

01:15:31.815 --> 01:15:34.955
and all. This thing, it said

01:15:35.495 --> 01:15:38.235
"Beyond the welfare of family and friends,

01:15:38.780 --> 01:15:41.180
it is the enhancement of the lives of

01:15:41.180 --> 01:15:43.180
those yet to come that must be the

01:15:43.180 --> 01:15:43.680
real

01:15:44.300 --> 01:15:45.360
object of life."

01:15:45.660 --> 01:15:46.880
It was in his handwriting.

01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:49.260
We don't know if he was quoting somebody

01:15:49.260 --> 01:15:50.780
else. We don't know if he ever said

01:15:50.780 --> 01:15:52.700
it in a speech. But my thought was

01:15:52.700 --> 01:15:53.520
maybe he

01:15:53.935 --> 01:15:55.775
thought it, wrote it down, put it in

01:15:55.775 --> 01:15:57.295
the desk, "I'll use that in a speech"

01:15:57.295 --> 01:15:58.655
because he made a lot of speeches in

01:15:58.655 --> 01:16:00.355
his life. At any rate,

01:16:01.135 --> 01:16:04.755
it became the last song of "Spectacular Falls."

01:16:05.215 --> 01:16:05.715
That's right, isn't it, Rachel?

Rachel:

01:16:07.470 --> 01:16:10.130
 Yes. 

Anita:

01:16:10.510 --> 01:16:12.990
The last song of the show because I said it

01:16:12.990 --> 01:16:13.970
falls to

01:16:14.310 --> 01:16:14.810
us

01:16:15.150 --> 01:16:17.090
to help the next generation.

01:16:17.950 --> 01:16:20.370
It's about the idea that the responsibility

01:16:21.070 --> 01:16:22.450
falls on our shoulders

01:16:22.915 --> 01:16:25.875
to take the legacy from others and move

01:16:25.875 --> 01:16:26.695
it forward.

01:16:27.075 --> 01:16:29.575
And I feel that this award Mom

01:16:30.115 --> 01:16:31.895
spent years putting together

01:16:32.355 --> 01:16:35.075
to honor my dad 50 years after his

01:16:35.075 --> 01:16:35.575
death,

01:16:35.980 --> 01:16:38.320
to give an award to a law student

01:16:38.380 --> 01:16:40.320
who has shown outstanding

01:16:41.180 --> 01:16:42.080
public service.

Iris:

01:16:42.860 --> 01:16:44.240
It's a public service

01:16:44.700 --> 01:16:45.600
award. Yes.

Anita:

01:16:46.220 --> 01:16:48.780
So I I adjusted the song a bit

01:16:48.780 --> 01:16:51.040
to be about how we all

01:16:51.625 --> 01:16:52.605
hand that legacy

01:16:53.065 --> 01:16:55.385
to others. And that person winning that award

01:16:55.385 --> 01:16:58.025
will hand that legacy on and that my

01:16:58.025 --> 01:16:59.945
mom made sure that this is something that

01:16:59.945 --> 01:17:01.245
will be in perpetuity,

01:17:02.505 --> 01:17:05.065
that will keep going. My mom's favorite song

01:17:05.065 --> 01:17:06.760
is from the show "Baby." It's called "The

01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:08.680
Story Goes On," and that is her favorite

01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:10.680
song. Well, this is not as good as

01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:12.760
"The Story Goes On," but I will try

01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:15.880
to at least do my mom and my

01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:16.700
dad proud.

01:17:18.280 --> 01:17:19.420
It's called "Beyond."

Who is my father to me?

I'm looking back 50 years and I see

a man in the wings I still see today

who gave others their wings

and showed them how to fly.

He said beyond the welfare

of family and friends,

beyond the welfare of family and friends,

beyond the welfare of family and friends,

it is the work we do for those

yet to come that really matters.

How do you measure someone?

Do you chart them by inches

or size of a shoe

or things they say or what they will

do to make the world a better place

for you and me.

He said beyond the welfare of family and friends,

beyond the welfare of family and friends,

beyond the welfare of family and friends,

it is the work we do for those yet to come

that lasts forever.

Whether it's picnics or looking at art,

music and laughter will stay in our heart,

sharing it all with our children to come

links us from one generation to another.

So why are we gathered today?

As we celebrate lives of present and past,

building something they hoped that would last

so that their voices would ring out

long after they are gone.

Because beyond the welfare of family and friends,

beyond the welfare family and friends,

beyond the welfare of family and friends,

it is the work we do for those yet to come

that really matters,

that lasts forever.

And the enhancement of those lives yet to come

must be the real object

of life.

Anita:

Thank you.

Kate:

Thank you. You all are beautiful.

Thank you so very much.

Iris and Rachel:

Thank you. Thank you, Kate.