Everyday Creation
Everyday Creation is about living our purpose, lifting our vibes, and expressing our creativity for the highest good. The show's title refers to three types of creation: The ways we express ourselves (for example, with art, music and so many other pursuits fueled by purpose and passion); the parts of life that fill us with awe — birth, death, love, the big picture; and our innate personal power to create our best possible lives while also making the world a better place. You’ll hear conversations with terrific guests on matters we care about, as well as spiritual perspectives, personal essays on being our best selves, and episodes simply for information and fun. I'm your host Kate Jones, welcoming you to Everyday Creation.
Everyday Creation
Inspired Grief Recovery, with Marla Grant
Marla Grant is an Advanced Grief Recovery Specialist and Founding Affiliate Leader of Helping Parents Heal Tampa. She helps parents who have experienced child loss, as well as individuals who are grieving other types of losses, move “from heartache to healing.”
She also teaches Mental Fitness Mastery as a Certified Positive Intelligence Coach to help clients infuse their world with more kindness and empathy and less judgment and stress.
In this extraordinary interview, which covers physical loss and spiritual connection, Marla shares what she's learned and how she's grown from the loss of three of her children. She encourages individuals who have experienced grief to seek help and support, and to know that healing is possible.
She says that personal responsibility, acceptance and willingness (PAW for short) all were important for her own healing. To learn more, please listen to the episode and visit Marla's website.
You also can find her on Instagram and Facebook under Inspired Grief Recovery.
This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Spotify and Audible.
Kate:
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Hello, and welcome to Everyday Creation,
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a show about living our purpose,
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lifting our vibes, and expressing our creativity
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for the highest good.
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I'm Kate Jones, here with Marla Grant,
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Advanced Grief Recovery Specialist,
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Certified Positive
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Intelligence
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Coach, and Founding Affiliate Leader
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of Helping Parents Heal Tampa.
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Marla,
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welcome to Everyday Creation.
Marla:
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Thank you so much for having me, Kate.
Kate:
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You describe yourself
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as a guide to help people go, quote,
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"from heartache to healing."
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That is quite beautiful.
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Obviously, you're doing important work.
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What led you
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to where you are now?
Marla:
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Well, it's been quite the ride, actually,
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and certainly not one that I ever expected
Kate:
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Or wanted.
Marla:
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Well, yeah. I mean, in some
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way yeah. Of course, in the,
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in the world of form, none of us
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would ever say we had chosen
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all these things to happen to us, but
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there is the thought on a higher
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level that yes, we absolutely had some
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had a hand in planning,
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planning what was going to be the trajectory
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of our lives. So
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of course we forget all that when we
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come here because we can't experience things the
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way we need to experience them, if we
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remember that this is all a game,
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it's all a play. I should
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start by telling you that's one of my
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most important concepts is I really believe in
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what William Shakespeare referred to that, you know,
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all the world's a stage and we all
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have our entrances and our exits.
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And if we can remember that,
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it helps us realize that everyone has a
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part to play
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and that everyone in my life has
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played this part
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in whatever capacity they were meant to. I
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believe that too.
Kate:
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And yet we get so caught up in
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the
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physicality
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here.
Marla:
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Yeah.
Kate:
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That it's just like,
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"Oh, I'm devastated
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about this or that." And
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it's a good reminder
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to come back to who you really are.
Marla:
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Yeah. And, you know, before I get into
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how I got here, I want to also
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say that I tell people that my work
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is really at the intersection
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of the world of spirit and the world
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of form, because
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especially with the parents I work with, helping
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parents heal has a very
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metaphysical orientation.
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So we talk a lot about signs from
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our kids, the different ways that we now
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connect with them,
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you know, in the energetic vibration
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that they're living in now, just in their
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light-being selves.
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And so having a reading or doing anything
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esoteric like that can be very uplifting or
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even whatever you do in your
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own spiritual or religious practice. That can be
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very uplifting.
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However,
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you have a great reading, you have a
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great spiritual session of some kind. And
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guess what? The next day you're right back
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here
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in the world of form,
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living what we're supposed to be living right
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now.
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And that's a whole other set of things
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you need to learn in order to cope.
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And so that's where my work
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is. I absolutely honor the spiritual and I
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do go there once in a while with
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my clients,
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you know, more than once in a while
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probably, but there are specific things I do
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when I teach grief recovery
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that are very grounded in this world.
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So to answer your question,
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my first,
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child that I had, I
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got really, really sick
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and I, I was unconscious for two days
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where I was given last rites
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and I woke up. So I had an
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emergency C-section. I woke up and,
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and was told I had a little
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baby who was five weeks premature.
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He is still with me.
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He's my oldest son living in Atlanta and
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we're very, very close.
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And then the following year I had an
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infant son
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and I was going to do a trial
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labor because, you know, it was thought that
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we didn't necessarily
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have to have another C-section, but things
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went
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disastrously
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wrong.
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And he was deprived of oxygen during the
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birth. And, and he died during the
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delivery.
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So,
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you know,
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that was my first loss of a child
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and it was just the most devastating,
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empty, barren feeling.
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And a lot of people think mistakenly
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that
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because you haven't known that child in this
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life for a long time, that somehow it's
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less ... a miscarriage or a
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stillbirth
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or even a
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neonatal birth are less than the death of
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a child you've known for many years. And
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it's just absolutely not true.
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It's just a different kind of loss, but
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it was extremely deep in its own
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way.
Kate:
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So it took months, didn't it, to really ...?
Marla:
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Well, yeah,
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which leads me to my next one, and
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I can kind of answer that question.
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I got pregnant just 12 weeks later,
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and that baby we named, we also named,
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Shane. Shane was the name of the baby that
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we lost. And then we named the
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new baby Shane, and we were
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uncommonly
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emotionally bonded. And I was sure
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I've always been certain that it was the
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soul of the same child that just
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definitely needed me to be his mom
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and be in our family. And
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that actually was confirmed to me many,
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many years later
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by a highly regarded evidential medium who was
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trying to,
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she read my other two kids and then
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she said, is there a twin? And I
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thought
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she was referring to something else in my
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family, two similar names. And she said, no,
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that's not it.
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And I hadn't told her about
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the baby. And then I told her and
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she said, that's why I can't read him
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over there because he's already back here. And
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I'm like, I knew that.
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So, yeah, so that was really interesting.
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And then I had my daughter
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a few years later, I had my only
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daughter, and when she was 7, she was
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diagnosed with leukemia.
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Shane was her donor
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and she had a bone marrow transplant
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and she did really, really well for about
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six years. And then she,
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unfortunately
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relapsed
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and she passed away just,
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just before her 14th, just after her 14th
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birthday.
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And I had had another son just after
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about 16 months after she was born.
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And they were really, really close,
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just like little twins. And she was like
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a little mother to him.
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And
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his name was Ryan, and
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Ryan,
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you know, was of course really devastated
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when she passed. He was about 12. And
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then when Ryan was 31,
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he, he took his life.
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And I don't believe that it was, I
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believe that the death of his sister might
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have been a contributing factor,
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but I think there were other things going
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on as well. It wasn't drug related or
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anything, but I had always had the feeling
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that he
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somehow was not
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like, almost like he'd come here too early.
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I mean, he just wasn't ready. It was
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like he had one foot in this world
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and one foot in the other world all
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the time.
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So just all three of them — really, really
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different,
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different types of losses.
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And I experienced them all very differently.
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But by the time,
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of course, certainly by the time Nicole died
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as my second, I was beginning to wonder,
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like, this is, this is really unusual. This
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is a lot, but for sure, by the
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time Ryan died,
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I was like, okay.
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You know, and all along the
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way, of course, I'd been doing a lot
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of spiritual searching.
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I was raised Catholic, but over time, when
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I left home, I was rejecting
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that theology more and more
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and just doing my own learning about other
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religions and spirituality in general.
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And
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I just began to realize that I
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was really meant to do something with this.
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I mean, there was a reason all this
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happened and kind of funny.
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Not too long ago, I was in meditation
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and, I now have this very clear idea
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of the things I want to share,
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but some of them are going to feel
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very out there to a lot of people.
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And so
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I began to question, like, you know, I
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even had a coaching session with a friend
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of mine and the title of the
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coaching session was, do I need to be
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less of me?
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And we had a great coaching session. And
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then I had a meditation and
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I was thinking about,
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you know, all of this. And I
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asked that question.
00:09:39.545 --> 00:09:41.625
And then I typically will write in
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my journal after that. And immediately, the first
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thing that came to me was like almost
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shouting at me,
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how many more children do you have to
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lose before you get it?
Kate:
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Woah.
Marla:
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I know.
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I'm
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like, how many more before, you know, this
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is what you're supposed to do? So I
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was like, okay. Okay. I get it. I get it.
Kate:
00:10:00.715 --> 00:10:03.675
I suppose so.
Marla:
00:10:03.675 --> 00:10:05.835
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really, really clear. I mean, I
00:10:05.835 --> 00:10:07.915
have been for the last, you know, since
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probably
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2016,
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I've really been on that trajectory, but this
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is why I talk to you about public
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speaking, and why that feels more and
00:10:18.390 --> 00:10:19.990
more important to me. And I've been
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writing more. And
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so I, yeah, it's
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maybe what I — not maybe. I'm sure it's
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what ... why would you not take these experience
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that you have — and this applies to all
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of us — and help other people with it?
Kate:
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Absolutely.
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And we do. We have our life purpose
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and you know it when you are doing it.
Marla:
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Yes. So
00:10:42.950 --> 00:10:45.430
now I just I want to just comment on
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the
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the reference you made to me
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saying that I'm a guide.
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I'm also very clear
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and I tell my clients this, that
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everyone has the answers
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inside them. They have their own personal guidance
00:11:04.210 --> 00:11:04.710
and
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I can't heal anyone.
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I can't do the work for them,
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but I can
00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:13.490
show them the stepping stones in getting to
00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:15.250
where they need to be, but they have
00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:16.310
to do the work.
00:11:16.955 --> 00:11:18.715
They absolutely have to, and they have to
00:11:18.715 --> 00:11:21.295
trust themselves. You know, we have this,
00:11:21.915 --> 00:11:23.295
this innate knowing
00:11:23.915 --> 00:11:25.435
and we just have to learn how to
00:11:25.435 --> 00:11:27.755
tap into that.
Kate:
00:11:27.755 --> 00:11:29.995
Well, that's how I read it. You know, it's in your email
00:11:29.995 --> 00:11:30.495
signature.
00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:32.720
But that's how I read it, that
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.860
you're a guide to helping them heal themselves.
Marla:
00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.780
Yep. Yeah. And most people don't realize that
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.840
there are specific steps that you can take,
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.340
for instance, in healing from a grief event.
00:11:45.035 --> 00:11:45.535
And
00:11:46.075 --> 00:11:48.795
it's not helpful to just keep talking and
00:11:48.795 --> 00:11:51.995
talking and talking about the loss, because all
00:11:51.995 --> 00:11:53.995
that does is it keeps you stuck in
00:11:53.995 --> 00:11:54.655
the story
00:11:55.435 --> 00:11:56.415
of what happened.
00:11:57.070 --> 00:11:58.910
And we don't, we don't want to stay stuck
00:11:58.910 --> 00:12:00.670
in that story. We want to be able
00:12:00.670 --> 00:12:01.170
to
00:12:02.270 --> 00:12:03.330
reflect on it,
00:12:04.510 --> 00:12:06.270
work through the things we need to work
00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:08.120
through. And that's all about the things that
00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:08.204
you wish had been different, better, or more
00:12:08.204 --> 00:12:08.287
in the relationship, because those are the things
00:12:08.287 --> 00:12:09.010
that are left with us that we grieve.
00:12:10.965 --> 00:12:12.051
Those are the things that are
00:12:12.051 --> 00:12:12.585
left with us.
00:12:13.445 --> 00:12:14.685
You know, I wish I had
00:12:14.685 --> 00:12:15.005
done this differently. If only I had maybe
00:12:15.005 --> 00:12:16.405
treated this person differently or done this when
00:12:16.405 --> 00:12:19.065
I said I was going to
00:12:19.365 --> 00:12:20.265
do that.
00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.480
You know, I could have been maybe a
00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.280
better parent, a better, a better sibling, a
00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:32.700
better friend, whatever the circumstance.
00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.320
And then of course we project into
00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:37.980
the future.
00:12:38.795 --> 00:12:40.555
And I tell people, and this is
00:12:40.555 --> 00:12:42.315
one of those things that I was talking about
00:12:42.315 --> 00:12:43.855
that people don't want to hear.
00:12:44.875 --> 00:12:46.815
That's stuff we make up.
00:12:47.595 --> 00:12:49.755
All that stuff for the future. We make
00:12:49.755 --> 00:12:50.975
that stuff up.
00:12:52.650 --> 00:12:53.310
We just
00:12:54.730 --> 00:12:57.290
create, we fabricate all these dreams of what's
00:12:57.290 --> 00:12:59.870
going to be. So just let that go.
00:13:00.410 --> 00:13:02.270
That was stuff you made up anyway.
00:13:02.650 --> 00:13:04.665
"I'll never get to walk my child down
00:13:04.665 --> 00:13:06.745
the aisle. I'll never get to see them
00:13:06.745 --> 00:13:09.065
graduate. I'll never get to see them build
00:13:09.065 --> 00:13:11.565
this amazing company. I'll never have their grandchildren."
00:13:12.745 --> 00:13:14.525
Well, that's just stuff you made up.
00:13:15.385 --> 00:13:17.145
If I could get rid of one word
00:13:17.145 --> 00:13:19.325
in the language, it would be "should,"
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.720
you know, this shouldn't have happened. They should
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:23.700
still ..no,
00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:28.240
no, whatever has happened is what was meant
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:28.900
to happen.
00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:31.540
And that the question is always,
00:13:32.705 --> 00:13:34.565
we need to let go of that question
00:13:34.625 --> 00:13:37.505
"why, why did this happen?" We're never going
00:13:37.505 --> 00:13:39.105
to know the answer to that. And even if
00:13:39.105 --> 00:13:41.905
we got some hypothetical "why," it would just
00:13:41.905 --> 00:13:43.605
lead to another. Well, why that?
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.740
So,
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.180
you know, acceptance
00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:50.900
is like the key to everything.
00:13:51.040 --> 00:13:52.800
That was another thing I did in one
00:13:52.800 --> 00:13:53.620
of my meditation
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.040
sessions many years ago, before I started this
00:13:57.040 --> 00:13:57.540
work,
00:13:58.385 --> 00:14:00.245
I was asking my guides,
00:14:00.545 --> 00:14:02.465
what, what do I need to do to
00:14:02.465 --> 00:14:05.605
be as helpful as possible to my clients?
00:14:05.665 --> 00:14:08.305
And immediately I hear "you need to get
00:14:08.305 --> 00:14:10.965
really clear about what helped you heal."
00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:12.120
And so
00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:13.400
three words
00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:14.360
immediately came to me:
00:14:15.060 --> 00:14:17.240
I wrote down "personal responsibility,
00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:20.420
acceptance, and willingness." And I was like, oh,
00:14:20.420 --> 00:14:23.140
those spelled PAW. So I made a little
00:14:23.140 --> 00:14:23.640
graphic
00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:25.080
that says PAW
00:14:25.435 --> 00:14:27.295
because people remember visuals.
00:14:28.155 --> 00:14:29.935
And the personal responsibility
00:14:30.235 --> 00:14:32.795
piece is all about, you know, we have
00:14:32.795 --> 00:14:36.015
to begin by taking at least 1 percent responsibility
00:14:36.155 --> 00:14:37.055
for our healing.
00:14:37.530 --> 00:14:39.150
No one can do that for
00:14:39.530 --> 00:14:41.530
us. We need to take the steps, but
00:14:41.530 --> 00:14:42.430
we need to
00:14:43.050 --> 00:14:44.190
just know that
00:14:44.650 --> 00:14:46.670
no one, no one can heal us,
00:14:47.530 --> 00:14:49.610
you know, and that personal
00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:51.790
responsibility piece is also about
00:14:53.475 --> 00:14:55.655
taking responsibility for reviewing
00:14:56.115 --> 00:14:56.615
your past
00:14:57.235 --> 00:14:59.875
relationship, whatever you have lost, and
00:14:59.875 --> 00:15:01.095
looking at it honestly.
00:15:02.035 --> 00:15:04.115
And that part of the grief recovery method
00:15:04.115 --> 00:15:05.735
is extremely helpful.
00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:08.070
And the second thing is acceptance. And I
00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:09.910
alluded to that, and I feel like that's
00:15:09.910 --> 00:15:12.490
the most important of the three. Acceptance
00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:15.350
because when you begin to accept what has
00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:18.170
happened, instead of insisting on knowing why,
00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:20.045
then you can move into,
00:15:21.385 --> 00:15:24.425
you can move into a place of asking
00:15:24.425 --> 00:15:25.945
"what, what am I meant to do with
00:15:25.945 --> 00:15:27.805
this?" I mean, I could ask forever,
00:15:28.425 --> 00:15:30.285
well, why did I lose three children?
00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:32.460
I actually never,
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.040
I mean, I probably did wonder why
00:15:36.040 --> 00:15:38.360
is all this happening, but I never, I
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.300
never thought "why me."
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.080
I'm like, I more often thought, "well,
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.020
why not me?" Because I could look around
00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:45.900
and see
00:15:47.235 --> 00:15:49.235
all kinds of things. I'm not the only
00:15:49.235 --> 00:15:52.275
one that is experiencing loss and some much
00:15:52.275 --> 00:15:54.775
worse than what I would consider mine is.
00:15:56.675 --> 00:15:59.395
So that acceptance piece is so important. The
00:15:59.395 --> 00:16:01.635
question instead of why needs to be, what,
00:16:01.635 --> 00:16:03.470
what, what am I meant to do with
00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:05.870
this? How could I use this?
00:16:06.010 --> 00:16:07.770
Am I meant to use it to help
00:16:07.770 --> 00:16:08.670
someone else?
00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:11.370
Is it taking me to a higher level
00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:13.470
of knowing or learning in my own life?
00:16:13.850 --> 00:16:16.110
And the third thing, the W is willingness.
00:16:17.035 --> 00:16:18.495
You have to be willing
00:16:19.275 --> 00:16:21.615
to let go of that story
00:16:21.995 --> 00:16:24.735
that you're telling yourself about that loss.
00:16:25.275 --> 00:16:27.515
And excuse me for looking on my phone,
00:16:27.515 --> 00:16:29.995
but I have this wonderful quote on my
00:16:29.995 --> 00:16:32.380
website that I love so much. And I
00:16:32.380 --> 00:16:33.440
read it to everyone.
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.040
I believe she is
00:16:37.420 --> 00:16:39.740
a poet or an author. Her name is
00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:41.680
Vienna Pharaon. And she says,
00:16:43.020 --> 00:16:45.340
she says, "Who are you if your story
00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:46.560
begins to change?
00:16:46.905 --> 00:16:49.065
Do not be so loyal to your suffering
00:16:49.065 --> 00:16:51.325
that your healing doesn't stand a chance"
Kate:
00:16:52.425 --> 00:16:55.145
Yes, that's wonderful.
Marla:
00:16:55.145 --> 00:16:57.725
That is willingness, right? Isn't it beautiful? It's willingness in a nutshell.
00:16:58.745 --> 00:17:01.225
And I find this is especially true with
00:17:01.225 --> 00:17:02.125
child loss.
00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:05.850
I've seen many, many parents who have done
00:17:05.850 --> 00:17:07.630
a phenomenal job of
00:17:08.090 --> 00:17:09.470
working through their grief,
00:17:09.930 --> 00:17:11.150
coming to an understanding,
00:17:11.850 --> 00:17:14.170
learning how to incorporate that loss into their
00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:16.170
life and relating to their child in a
00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:16.990
different way.
00:17:18.015 --> 00:17:19.235
But there are also
00:17:19.615 --> 00:17:22.415
some parents who engage in what I call
00:17:22.415 --> 00:17:24.115
the mystique of child loss.
00:17:24.495 --> 00:17:26.035
And that is this idea
00:17:26.415 --> 00:17:26.915
that,
00:17:28.415 --> 00:17:31.475
that our loss is worse than anyone else's.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.900
And that we are somehow,
00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:35.280
you know, on the pinnacle of
00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:36.740
the grief world.
00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:40.240
And it becomes kind of a badge
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.040
of notoriety of some kind like, well, I
00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:45.780
have the worst grief. And, you know,
00:17:46.345 --> 00:17:47.885
there are people who will say
00:17:48.745 --> 00:17:50.125
your life is ruined.
00:17:50.825 --> 00:17:53.225
You'll be devastated for life. You can never
00:17:53.225 --> 00:17:54.285
get over this.
00:17:55.145 --> 00:17:55.645
And
00:17:56.025 --> 00:17:57.325
one of the most damaging,
00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:02.680
it sounds like a very high-minded quote,
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.080
but I find that I think it's so
00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:07.020
damaging is this idea that
00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:10.760
the depth of your grief is equated to
00:18:10.760 --> 00:18:12.140
the depth of your love.
00:18:13.125 --> 00:18:15.125
And I know what this does to parents
00:18:15.125 --> 00:18:16.345
because I've talked to them.
00:18:16.965 --> 00:18:18.025
They are afraid
00:18:18.565 --> 00:18:19.705
to move beyond
00:18:20.805 --> 00:18:23.145
and to begin to re-engage life
00:18:24.085 --> 00:18:26.645
and to feel any kind of joy or
00:18:26.645 --> 00:18:27.145
happiness
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.120
because not only do they feel
00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:32.520
that they're dishonoring the memory of their child,
00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:34.680
but they're also concerned about what other people
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.240
think. I've been reading the works of Nanci
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.520
Danison who had a, a very deep near-
00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:41.340
death experience.
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.140
And
00:18:42.765 --> 00:18:44.685
I was already very familiar with a lot
00:18:44.685 --> 00:18:46.225
of what she's written, but
00:18:47.485 --> 00:18:49.805
I've learned some things in greater depth than
00:18:49.805 --> 00:18:51.265
I knew before. And
00:18:52.285 --> 00:18:53.825
I mean, if you think about,
00:18:54.205 --> 00:18:55.825
if you think about this life,
00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:58.260
you can kind of equate it to what
00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:59.720
happens when we dream.
00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:03.220
We manifest these lives and these things in
00:19:03.220 --> 00:19:04.200
our dream world.
00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:07.140
And they feel when we're in that dream,
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:08.840
they feel extremely real.
00:19:09.525 --> 00:19:11.445
And, you know, we would swear all that
00:19:11.445 --> 00:19:13.545
is going on, even though sometimes it,
00:19:13.925 --> 00:19:15.605
I don't know about you, but sometimes in
00:19:15.605 --> 00:19:16.265
my dreams,
00:19:16.965 --> 00:19:18.725
the things that happen are against the laws
00:19:18.725 --> 00:19:19.385
of physics.
00:19:20.005 --> 00:19:20.505
But
00:19:20.885 --> 00:19:22.585
when those dreams are done,
00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:25.070
you don't agonize about them.
00:19:25.850 --> 00:19:28.010
You just let them go
00:19:28.010 --> 00:19:28.910
and they're done.
00:19:29.450 --> 00:19:29.950
And
00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.690
that's pretty much the same thing that happens
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:34.910
when our kids pass.
00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:36.830
I mean,
00:19:38.075 --> 00:19:39.455
so let me differentiate
00:19:39.755 --> 00:19:42.955
there's these human bodies. And remind
00:19:42.955 --> 00:19:44.555
me to talk to you about that with
00:19:44.555 --> 00:19:46.255
my daughter, because that's really important.
00:19:47.515 --> 00:19:49.295
And then there's the light-being
00:19:49.675 --> 00:19:50.655
part of us.
00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:55.790
These bodies are just like — even science classifies
00:19:55.850 --> 00:19:59.370
them as mammals or they're just human animals.
00:19:59.370 --> 00:19:59.870
And
00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:02.745
so
00:20:03.705 --> 00:20:05.805
that part is what passes away.
00:20:06.745 --> 00:20:09.005
But the light-being part of ourselves,
00:20:09.945 --> 00:20:11.645
that lives on forever
00:20:12.025 --> 00:20:14.445
because energy doesn't just go away.
00:20:14.905 --> 00:20:16.925
And I had a really, really
00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:21.820
deep lesson about this when my daughter passed,
00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:22.320
because,
00:20:24.060 --> 00:20:26.380
we had an open casket when she passed,
00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:28.220
and at the funeral home, I hadn't seen
00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:30.960
her since we left her at the hospital.
00:20:31.475 --> 00:20:33.395
And my, my oldest son was with me
00:20:33.395 --> 00:20:34.515
and he said, "Do you want to go up
00:20:34.515 --> 00:20:35.875
and see her?" And I'm like, ugh, I
00:20:35.875 --> 00:20:37.315
don't know. I just don't know if I
00:20:37.315 --> 00:20:39.075
can do it. And he said, "Come on
00:20:39.075 --> 00:20:41.555
mom." And that was such a gift that
00:20:41.555 --> 00:20:43.495
he took me up there because
00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:46.340
I looked in that casket
00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.540
and
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:49.380
that body,
00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:50.580
that
00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:51.540
container
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.060
was just that.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.600
It was so evident to me that I
00:20:55.600 --> 00:20:56.100
remember
00:20:56.745 --> 00:20:58.825
catching my breath and saying, oh my God,
00:20:58.825 --> 00:20:59.885
that's not Nicole.
00:21:00.825 --> 00:21:01.325
And
00:21:01.625 --> 00:21:04.685
I think that probably happened with her because
00:21:05.625 --> 00:21:08.105
the contrast between who she was when she
00:21:08.105 --> 00:21:10.925
was living — vibrant, happy, joyful,
00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:14.900
loving — just made everyone around her feel good.
00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:16.600
She was just that kind of person.
00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:18.120
And when she died,
00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:20.200
I knew she was fine.
00:21:20.500 --> 00:21:21.160
I mean,
00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:23.460
I, I just knew she was fine.
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.245
I did not worry about her at all.
00:21:25.325 --> 00:21:28.845
But the contrast between that, knowing her and
00:21:28.845 --> 00:21:30.765
seeing that, I'm telling you, if you ever
00:21:30.765 --> 00:21:31.505
see that,
00:21:31.885 --> 00:21:32.385
it,
00:21:32.765 --> 00:21:34.205
you know, it will bring you a lot
00:21:34.205 --> 00:21:36.705
of comfort. If you, if you understand
00:21:37.085 --> 00:21:37.585
that
00:21:38.365 --> 00:21:38.865
these,
00:21:39.270 --> 00:21:42.810
this interaction is happening between our spirit selves
00:21:43.510 --> 00:21:44.810
and it's not our bodies.
00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:47.530
And that continues on forever.
00:21:48.070 --> 00:21:49.930
So I, I tell our parents,
00:21:50.870 --> 00:21:53.615
if I had died and I was watching
00:21:53.615 --> 00:21:54.995
my child back here,
00:21:55.455 --> 00:21:57.075
would I want them to be miserable?
00:21:57.455 --> 00:21:57.955
No,
00:21:59.295 --> 00:22:00.515
absolutely not.
00:22:00.895 --> 00:22:03.615
Please go live your life. I'm still
00:22:03.615 --> 00:22:05.395
around. I'm still around.
00:22:06.415 --> 00:22:06.915
So
00:22:07.290 --> 00:22:08.910
yeah, all those concepts,
00:22:09.290 --> 00:22:11.370
I think, can be, you know, can be
00:22:11.370 --> 00:22:12.350
very comforting.
Kate:
00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:13.710
Yes.
00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:17.930
And you can talk about this or not
00:22:17.930 --> 00:22:20.010
talk about it, but you did have an
00:22:20.010 --> 00:22:22.670
encounter with your daughter after she passed.
Marla:
00:22:22.975 --> 00:22:25.055
I've told several people about that, but I've
00:22:25.055 --> 00:22:26.195
had some amazing,
00:22:27.615 --> 00:22:30.095
amazing things happen to me. But the one
00:22:30.095 --> 00:22:31.695
that you're referring to, is it the rocking
00:22:31.695 --> 00:22:32.195
chair one?
Kate:
00:22:33.295 --> 00:22:35.555
Yes. I think so.
Marla:
00:22:36.780 --> 00:22:38.400
After she passed, it was that night or
00:22:39.020 --> 00:22:40.940
one or two nights afterward, it was like
00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:42.320
a dream, but what
00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:44.860
many of us refer to these as
00:22:44.860 --> 00:22:46.400
kind of visitation dreams.
00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:49.580
It's the difference between the kind of random
00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:52.105
dream you have that you're, you know, out
00:22:52.105 --> 00:22:54.365
flying around or whatever you're doing or interacting
00:22:54.425 --> 00:22:56.045
with people, and the kind where
00:22:56.505 --> 00:22:58.845
you have a dream and it's so real,
00:22:59.545 --> 00:23:01.085
you know, you were right there.
00:23:01.545 --> 00:23:04.410
So this is that to some degree. So
00:23:04.410 --> 00:23:06.510
I was taken by what I would consider
00:23:06.890 --> 00:23:07.870
one of my
00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:10.030
spirit guides, my helpers,
00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:13.450
through what looked like — it wasn't a light
00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:15.530
tunnel. It was just, it literally looked
00:23:15.530 --> 00:23:17.770
like a tunnel under the ground. We went
00:23:17.770 --> 00:23:19.605
down there and I could tell that people
00:23:19.605 --> 00:23:21.925
were in various stages of dying. You know,
00:23:21.925 --> 00:23:23.225
when we pass over,
00:23:23.605 --> 00:23:25.305
it takes us a while to
00:23:26.325 --> 00:23:28.025
mentally come out of the
00:23:28.485 --> 00:23:28.985
human
00:23:30.085 --> 00:23:31.140
frame of mind.
00:23:31.620 --> 00:23:34.180
That's what state these people were in. Nicole
00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.740
was already pretty past that. So we went
00:23:36.740 --> 00:23:38.500
into a room and my guide is standing
00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:40.260
next to her and she's next to me.
00:23:40.260 --> 00:23:41.880
And she says, "Are you ready?
00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:44.180
Are you ready to see Nicole?" And I
00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:46.855
said, yes. And so Nicole comes riding into
00:23:46.855 --> 00:23:49.095
this room on Clifford, the big red dog,
00:23:49.095 --> 00:23:50.315
wearing her jammies.
00:23:51.735 --> 00:23:53.755
Of course, all of this is like iconic.
00:23:54.375 --> 00:23:56.715
You see the things that you imagine
00:23:57.175 --> 00:23:59.415
because, because you've known them here, you see
00:23:59.415 --> 00:24:01.510
them in a way that is acceptable to
00:24:01.510 --> 00:24:03.130
you in your current form.
00:24:03.510 --> 00:24:06.070
And that would so have been her, like,
00:24:06.070 --> 00:24:08.010
if, you know, if she had come in,
00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:10.390
I don't know, surfing or something, I would
00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.090
have not probably recognized her, but she loved
00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:14.810
dogs
00:24:15.975 --> 00:24:16.715
so much
00:24:18.215 --> 00:24:20.695
and she was so comfortable. And, and she
00:24:20.695 --> 00:24:21.755
came over and
00:24:22.695 --> 00:24:24.215
I think she was with me for a
00:24:24.215 --> 00:24:24.955
few minutes.
00:24:25.655 --> 00:24:27.095
That part of it is a little bit
00:24:27.095 --> 00:24:27.595
hazy,
00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:29.860
but she did come over to me and
00:24:29.860 --> 00:24:31.800
we kind of snuggled a little bit
00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:34.020
but she didn't talk to me. She
00:24:34.020 --> 00:24:35.480
has never talked to me.
00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:38.180
And then my guide said, "Are you ready
00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:39.795
to go?" And I said, yes. And then,
00:24:39.955 --> 00:24:41.955
and then I woke up, but then this
00:24:41.955 --> 00:24:43.735
other dream I had was like,
00:24:45.315 --> 00:24:47.335
it just showed me how thin
00:24:47.795 --> 00:24:49.875
the veil is. I mean, people who pass
00:24:49.875 --> 00:24:51.415
over are not in a place.
00:24:52.115 --> 00:24:53.015
It's all
00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:55.670
right here. It's just at a different energetic
00:24:55.810 --> 00:24:56.310
level.
00:24:57.970 --> 00:24:58.470
So
00:24:58.930 --> 00:25:00.530
in this dream, and I do know this
00:25:00.530 --> 00:25:02.850
was a dream because I remember waking up
00:25:02.850 --> 00:25:04.150
in a flood of tears.
00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:07.250
I, I was in a void. There was
00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:09.555
just a void and I was in a
00:25:09.555 --> 00:25:10.455
rocking chair.
00:25:11.235 --> 00:25:13.635
So there was just darkness all around me
00:25:13.635 --> 00:25:15.635
in the rocking chair, Nicole sitting on my
00:25:15.635 --> 00:25:17.315
lap and she was kind of snuggled into
00:25:17.315 --> 00:25:17.815
me
00:25:18.515 --> 00:25:20.135
and we were just rocking,
00:25:20.515 --> 00:25:23.100
and she took her hand and she cupped
00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:25.180
her hand on my face in that little
00:25:25.180 --> 00:25:26.080
sweet gesture.
00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:28.640
And the second that she did that,
00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:31.020
I woke up and I could still feel
00:25:31.020 --> 00:25:33.200
the warmth of her hand on my cheek.
00:25:33.765 --> 00:25:35.625
And I'm like, it was like,
00:25:36.405 --> 00:25:37.925
oh my God, I can feel her.
00:25:39.285 --> 00:25:41.785
It was so real, but it was physically
00:25:42.245 --> 00:25:42.745
tangible.
Kate:
00:25:43.765 --> 00:25:46.245
Which is incredible. That is the story that
00:25:46.245 --> 00:25:48.840
you told me before. I just love that
00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:49.740
story.
Marla:
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:52.220
Yeah, it was, it was just amazing.
00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:54.540
But yeah, my kids have shown up in
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:55.980
different random ways.
00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:58.600
I was sitting in my backyard and I
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:00.520
said, "I hadn't heard from them in a
00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:02.380
while. And could they send me a sign?"
00:26:03.165 --> 00:26:05.025
And their names are Nicole and Ryan.
00:26:05.405 --> 00:26:07.565
And the next morning, a friend of mine
00:26:07.565 --> 00:26:09.245
who had been on the East Coast looking
00:26:09.245 --> 00:26:11.245
at colleges with her daughter and staying in
00:26:11.245 --> 00:26:11.905
an airbnb,
00:26:12.685 --> 00:26:14.525
she had walked out and on the corner
00:26:14.525 --> 00:26:16.605
of her street, she texted me a photo
00:26:16.605 --> 00:26:18.160
and she said, "Hey, I just walked out
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.600
and saw this. I thought you'd like to
00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:21.120
see this." And mind you, this is the
00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:23.120
next morning after I've asked Nicole and Ryan
00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:25.360
for a sign. And the sign said Ryan
00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:26.260
Nicole Court.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.100
Oh my God. Oh my God. It's sign
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.220
Ryan Nicole
00:26:29.600 --> 00:26:30.100
Court.
00:26:30.755 --> 00:26:32.295
I was like, I just
00:26:32.595 --> 00:26:34.915
died laughing. Cause all I could think of
00:26:34.915 --> 00:26:35.415
was,
00:26:36.035 --> 00:26:38.435
I wonder how long they argued about whose
00:26:38.435 --> 00:26:39.655
name was going to go first.
00:26:40.435 --> 00:26:42.195
And of course Ryan would have come first
00:26:42.195 --> 00:26:43.875
because she was like a little mother to
00:26:43.875 --> 00:26:45.315
him. She would have let him had his
00:26:45.315 --> 00:26:45.815
way.
Kate:
00:26:47.370 --> 00:26:50.490
So then do you share these with your
00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:50.990
clients?
Marla:
00:26:51.290 --> 00:26:51.950
It depends.
00:26:52.570 --> 00:26:53.310
It depends
00:26:53.770 --> 00:26:56.190
because when I teach the Grief Recovery Method,
00:26:56.730 --> 00:26:59.370
there's a specific protocol for that. Although the
00:26:59.370 --> 00:27:00.670
Grief Recovery Method
00:27:01.525 --> 00:27:02.745
honors and respects
00:27:03.445 --> 00:27:07.145
people's spiritual beliefs and that aspect
00:27:07.765 --> 00:27:10.025
of anything that happens towards healing,
00:27:11.045 --> 00:27:11.945
it does not
00:27:12.325 --> 00:27:13.305
teach anything
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.020
related to that. So I'm very careful about
00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:19.420
doing that. If I know that they're oriented
00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:20.320
in that direction,
00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:22.400
I might say,
00:27:22.780 --> 00:27:25.100
you know, I'm taking my Grief Recovery Method
00:27:25.100 --> 00:27:26.940
hat off for a minute because there are
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.235
other things that I teach. I do teach
00:27:29.235 --> 00:27:31.895
those kinds of concepts. I teach Positive Intelligence,
00:27:32.675 --> 00:27:35.315
but when I'm teaching the grief recovery method,
00:27:35.315 --> 00:27:38.295
I typically stick very, very close to
00:27:38.515 --> 00:27:40.915
exactly what that curriculum is because it's so
00:27:40.915 --> 00:27:41.415
powerful.
00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:44.650
And it's so necessary, you know?
Kate:
00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:46.330
So did you
00:27:46.710 --> 00:27:47.850
become a specialist
00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:51.030
in Advanced Grief Recovery? Did you
00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:52.090
go through training?
Marla:
00:27:52.550 --> 00:27:54.710
Yes, absolutely. I'm a certified by the Grief
00:27:54.710 --> 00:27:55.770
Recovery Institute
00:27:56.685 --> 00:27:59.645
and I had studied counseling in college, but
00:27:59.645 --> 00:28:01.025
the interesting thing is,
00:28:02.045 --> 00:28:03.905
you would think otherwise, but
00:28:04.925 --> 00:28:07.585
therapists and counselors typically in academia,
00:28:07.885 --> 00:28:09.665
they don't learn about grief.
00:28:10.190 --> 00:28:12.110
In all the courses I took in college,
00:28:12.110 --> 00:28:14.530
there was not a specific course on grief.
00:28:14.830 --> 00:28:16.450
In fact, recently
00:28:16.750 --> 00:28:18.770
I was looking at some master's programs
00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:21.650
and I wanted to see if any specific
00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:22.210
track
00:28:22.635 --> 00:28:24.015
focused on that, nothing,
00:28:24.395 --> 00:28:26.475
all kinds of other maladies, but it's like,
00:28:26.475 --> 00:28:28.575
we don't want to talk about grief,
00:28:28.955 --> 00:28:30.095
and it's everywhere.
00:28:30.475 --> 00:28:31.375
It's everywhere.
00:28:32.395 --> 00:28:32.895
So
00:28:33.275 --> 00:28:35.490
to answer your question, yes, I am
00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:37.250
certified. I have studied it and practiced it
00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:39.170
for many years and it certainly helped me
00:28:39.170 --> 00:28:41.570
as well. It provided healing in a way
00:28:41.570 --> 00:28:43.810
for me that I had not experienced before.
00:28:43.810 --> 00:28:45.810
Some of the concepts I was really familiar
00:28:45.810 --> 00:28:47.730
with because when I was going through a
00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:49.910
lot of these losses, I lived overseas
00:28:51.225 --> 00:28:53.625
and I had to learn and figure things
00:28:53.625 --> 00:28:54.845
out on my own. So
00:28:55.625 --> 00:28:57.965
a lot of the concepts were not unfamiliar
00:28:58.185 --> 00:28:58.765
to me,
00:28:59.225 --> 00:28:59.725
but
00:29:00.185 --> 00:29:01.485
the process of,
00:29:01.785 --> 00:29:04.310
you know, how it's all laid out, that
00:29:04.310 --> 00:29:06.090
definitely was. And I should also
00:29:06.550 --> 00:29:08.810
say that the teacher that I had
00:29:09.830 --> 00:29:12.410
had come from her own therapy practice
00:29:13.430 --> 00:29:15.910
of 20 years and gave it up. And
00:29:15.910 --> 00:29:17.750
that she's not the only one I've heard
00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:18.250
this from.
00:29:18.875 --> 00:29:21.275
They bring the Grief Recovery method into
00:29:21.275 --> 00:29:22.895
their work, even if they remain
00:29:23.195 --> 00:29:25.535
therapists or counselors, because it's so powerful.
00:29:25.995 --> 00:29:27.215
It's been around for
00:29:27.675 --> 00:29:29.835
40-plus years, been taught all over the
00:29:29.835 --> 00:29:32.155
world to hundreds of thousands of people. And,
00:29:32.155 --> 00:29:33.935
it's the only evidence-based
00:29:34.350 --> 00:29:36.350
program in the world. In other words, it's
00:29:36.350 --> 00:29:36.850
had
00:29:37.310 --> 00:29:40.270
university-level research studies done on it showing
00:29:40.270 --> 00:29:42.370
its efficacy. I teach an associated
00:29:43.550 --> 00:29:45.710
class, but that work I do one on
00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:47.790
one with people because I just find it's
00:29:47.790 --> 00:29:48.610
more effective.
00:29:48.935 --> 00:29:51.575
People can develop a really close relationship with
00:29:51.575 --> 00:29:53.735
me and they feel very confident and open.
00:29:53.735 --> 00:29:55.895
And I can really hear what they're saying,
00:29:55.895 --> 00:29:58.135
but maybe more importantly, I can hear what
00:29:58.135 --> 00:30:00.235
they're not saying that they need to say.
00:30:00.535 --> 00:30:02.535
But I also teach a class called helping
00:30:02.535 --> 00:30:03.675
children with loss,
00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:04.880
which is
00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:08.480
so, so important because it helps adults
00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840
learn
00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:13.980
healthy ways to teach their children how to
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:14.960
deal with grief.
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.840
And so many times, if you think about,
00:30:18.625 --> 00:30:20.465
and this is not an indictment of our
00:30:20.465 --> 00:30:23.025
parents or, you know, there's no judgment against
00:30:23.025 --> 00:30:24.405
them or against us.
00:30:24.785 --> 00:30:26.465
But I know that to some degree, I
00:30:26.465 --> 00:30:27.605
did this with my,
00:30:28.545 --> 00:30:30.245
I can use Ryan as an example.
00:30:30.865 --> 00:30:33.205
We tend to dismiss our child's
00:30:34.270 --> 00:30:36.770
sadness and anxiety because we can see that
00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:39.470
it's a small issue. Well, it's small to
00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:41.710
us, but it's not small to them. And
00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:42.850
if we're not recognizing
00:30:43.150 --> 00:30:45.230
what's happening for them and helping them work
00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:45.885
through it,
00:30:46.365 --> 00:30:49.025
then this, this is what happens. They learn
00:30:49.165 --> 00:30:51.905
not to talk about it. They learn to
00:30:51.965 --> 00:30:52.705
go away
00:30:53.005 --> 00:30:55.565
and grieve on their own. And in the
00:30:55.565 --> 00:30:59.405
absence of healthy information about grief, they make
00:30:59.405 --> 00:31:00.865
up all kinds of stuff.
00:31:01.350 --> 00:31:02.490
And if they can't,
00:31:03.110 --> 00:31:05.770
if they can't heal in a healthy way,
00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:08.330
they substitute other things
00:31:08.870 --> 00:31:11.430
for what healing should give them. And those
00:31:11.430 --> 00:31:12.810
are things like drugs,
00:31:13.110 --> 00:31:14.010
social media,
00:31:14.775 --> 00:31:15.275
alcohol.
00:31:16.135 --> 00:31:18.535
In adulthood, tt can be gambling and sex
00:31:18.535 --> 00:31:19.275
and promiscuity
00:31:19.655 --> 00:31:21.515
and any number of things.
00:31:21.895 --> 00:31:24.635
It can be super excess with exercising.
00:31:25.175 --> 00:31:26.955
It's a whole bunch of things, anything.
Kate:
00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:28.760
Eating?
Marla:
00:31:29.860 --> 00:31:31.000
Yes. Or not eating.
00:31:31.460 --> 00:31:33.240
Yep. One or the other.
00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:35.720
So with Ryan,
00:31:36.020 --> 00:31:38.440
I saw the importance of this. Even though
00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:41.140
Ryan and I talked about Nicole after she
00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:42.660
passed and I would ask him how he
00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.400
was doing,
00:31:43.845 --> 00:31:44.585
I missed
00:31:45.045 --> 00:31:46.105
so many signs.
00:31:46.885 --> 00:31:48.725
Or I saw a sign and didn't take
00:31:48.725 --> 00:31:50.725
it as seriously as I should have. I
00:31:50.725 --> 00:31:53.285
didn't see it as a warning it should
00:31:53.285 --> 00:31:55.705
have been. And it wasn't just Nicole's passing.
00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:56.930
It was
00:31:57.470 --> 00:31:59.090
difficulties with his dad.
00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:00.930
I first want to say
00:32:01.630 --> 00:32:02.610
there are many,
00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:05.630
many blessings that came from all of my
00:32:05.630 --> 00:32:06.770
challenges, including
00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:09.890
my difficult 27-year marriage.
00:32:10.795 --> 00:32:12.015
My husband had,
00:32:12.315 --> 00:32:14.155
you know, a lot of emotional problems and
00:32:14.155 --> 00:32:15.775
a couple of addictions and,
00:32:16.715 --> 00:32:17.455
you know,
00:32:17.835 --> 00:32:20.395
it ran the gamut even to death threats.
00:32:20.395 --> 00:32:20.895
And
00:32:21.675 --> 00:32:23.915
I know that all of that affected not
00:32:23.915 --> 00:32:27.170
only Ryan, but his two brothers as well,
00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:29.090
who I'm happy to say are doing really,
00:32:29.090 --> 00:32:29.830
really well.
00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:33.910
But I realized that this deeply impacted Ryan
00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:35.990
and because I was not
00:32:36.610 --> 00:32:39.475
at the time familiar enough with, you know,
00:32:39.475 --> 00:32:41.875
the concepts of grief and how we don't
00:32:41.875 --> 00:32:42.855
handle it properly.
00:32:43.235 --> 00:32:45.015
I missed so many signs
00:32:46.115 --> 00:32:48.035
related to what he was going through. And
00:32:48.035 --> 00:32:50.295
I believe it, a lot of that
00:32:51.075 --> 00:32:53.250
led to his passing. I don't, I don't
00:32:53.250 --> 00:32:55.810
feel responsible for that. Every person who takes
00:32:55.810 --> 00:32:59.110
their life is responsible for that action, but
00:32:59.730 --> 00:33:01.730
I do help people deal with, you know,
00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:04.370
the inevitable guilt, the misplaced guilt, I would
00:33:04.370 --> 00:33:06.390
say, that they often feel about that.
Kate:
00:33:07.105 --> 00:33:08.005
Right. So
00:33:08.385 --> 00:33:11.585
do you work in person?
Marla:
00:33:11.585 --> 00:33:13.365
I typically work remotely via Zoom.
00:33:13.745 --> 00:33:16.165
I've helped people all over the world. So
00:33:16.625 --> 00:33:18.385
I have clients from a lot of different
00:33:18.385 --> 00:33:18.885
places.
Kate:
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:19.980
That's wonderful.
Marla:
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.240
And the helping children with loss. I have taught
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.020
that remotely over Zoom,
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.420
but I could teach that in person.
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.160
I just find it's easier on Zoom because
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.080
no one has to go anywhere. And
00:33:33.080 --> 00:33:33.900
it's surprisingly
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:34.700
intimate,
00:33:35.155 --> 00:33:36.135
as you can tell.
Kate:
00:33:36.515 --> 00:33:39.095
Yes. I think it's terrific. Yes.
00:33:39.555 --> 00:33:41.795
Do you still do the pet one,
00:33:41.795 --> 00:33:44.995
the grief of losing a pet? May people are so close
00:33:44.995 --> 00:33:46.995
to their pets
00:33:47.395 --> 00:33:48.775
and that tends to be
00:33:49.820 --> 00:33:51.500
and
00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.160
that tends to be kind of disregarded.
Marla:
00:33:55.020 --> 00:33:56.800
Yes. It does. It does.
00:33:57.500 --> 00:33:59.920
I tell people, please don't compare losses.
00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:01.035
You know,
00:34:01.595 --> 00:34:04.015
it's not the Grief Olympics. And when you...
Kate:
00:34:05.675 --> 00:34:06.415
It's not
00:34:07.035 --> 00:34:10.015
the Grief Olympics. That's an excellent
00:34:10.155 --> 00:34:12.255
line.
Marla:
00:34:13.530 --> 00:34:15.930
It's not the grief Olympics.Yeah. We have no right to judge someone else's
00:34:15.930 --> 00:34:17.770
level of pain. I had a woman call
00:34:17.770 --> 00:34:18.910
me a few years ago
00:34:19.770 --> 00:34:21.550
and she was in this area and
00:34:22.410 --> 00:34:23.470
she said,
00:34:23.850 --> 00:34:25.790
"I know that you work with parents,
00:34:26.675 --> 00:34:29.075
but I just lost my cat of 18
00:34:29.075 --> 00:34:30.855
years." And it was her child.
00:34:31.235 --> 00:34:33.075
It was like her child. And there are
00:34:33.075 --> 00:34:34.615
people for whom animals
00:34:35.395 --> 00:34:37.175
are the closest thing to them.
00:34:37.875 --> 00:34:40.035
I totally empathize with her. I was not
00:34:40.035 --> 00:34:41.015
goint to tell her
00:34:41.660 --> 00:34:42.160
well,
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:44.620
you know, it's not a child, but there
00:34:44.620 --> 00:34:46.620
are people that do that. And it's so
00:34:46.620 --> 00:34:47.120
unkind.
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:48.800
So
00:34:49.180 --> 00:34:50.940
the other thing that's really important
00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:52.080
to know is that
00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:55.100
no matter what your loss is, even if
00:34:55.100 --> 00:34:56.720
you have had a similar loss,
00:34:57.515 --> 00:34:59.375
it's not helpful to tell someone
00:34:59.835 --> 00:35:01.915
I know how you feel. We don't know
00:35:01.915 --> 00:35:03.135
how anyone feels.
00:35:03.595 --> 00:35:05.535
It would be more accurate to say
00:35:05.995 --> 00:35:08.475
I lost a child or I've experienced child
00:35:08.475 --> 00:35:10.555
loss. I know what that feels, know what
00:35:10.555 --> 00:35:12.970
that felt like for me, but all
00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:15.130
loss is very unique.
00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:16.410
The relationships
00:35:16.710 --> 00:35:17.370
are unique.
00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:20.710
Even within a family, the dad and the
00:35:20.710 --> 00:35:22.570
siblings are going to experience
00:35:22.870 --> 00:35:25.670
things differently than the mother does or the
00:35:25.670 --> 00:35:27.130
extended family does.
00:35:27.875 --> 00:35:30.535
Because the dynamics of the relationship were different.
00:35:31.315 --> 00:35:33.155
So it's something that we just need to
00:35:33.155 --> 00:35:35.095
be really aware of and
00:35:35.955 --> 00:35:38.435
just be very accepting of where people are.
00:35:38.435 --> 00:35:40.595
And when someone comes to us and wants
00:35:40.595 --> 00:35:42.260
to talk about their loss or needs to
00:35:42.260 --> 00:35:44.020
talk about their loss, our job is to
00:35:44.020 --> 00:35:44.520
just
00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:46.440
be there and to hold space.
00:35:47.540 --> 00:35:49.800
And in fact, I, I typically
00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:52.740
am almost hesitant to even let people know
00:35:52.740 --> 00:35:55.060
that I've lost three children because if they
00:35:55.060 --> 00:35:56.440
do know, I immediately
00:35:56.740 --> 00:35:57.675
say, but look,
00:35:58.875 --> 00:36:01.035
my loss is not any worse than anyone
00:36:01.035 --> 00:36:01.935
else's because,
00:36:02.235 --> 00:36:04.555
you know, immediately they go to that place
00:36:04.555 --> 00:36:06.155
that most people go, oh my gosh, I
00:36:06.155 --> 00:36:08.735
don't know how you've managed that, et cetera, et cetera.
00:36:09.595 --> 00:36:11.430
My loss is no worse than anyone else's.
00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:13.670
Imagine someone who's lived with the love of
00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:16.090
their life and had a deeply close relationship
00:36:16.470 --> 00:36:18.470
for 50 years or so, and then they
00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:19.450
lost their partner.
00:36:20.710 --> 00:36:22.470
Why would I ever say my loss was
00:36:22.470 --> 00:36:23.450
worse than theirs?
00:36:25.005 --> 00:36:26.545
And that's judging
00:36:26.845 --> 00:36:27.345
too.
Kate:
00:36:27.645 --> 00:36:30.445
It's judging.
00:36:30.445 --> 00:36:31.265
And that's not helpful.
Marla:
00:36:31.885 --> 00:36:33.985
Placing hierarchies
00:36:34.445 --> 00:36:36.465
on pain is very counterproductive.
Kate:
00:36:38.020 --> 00:36:39.560
And how do we know anyway?
Marla:
00:36:40.020 --> 00:36:41.720
We just don't
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.600
know. And that's not the point of
00:36:45.140 --> 00:36:47.560
helping each other. Anyway, I always remember
00:36:48.740 --> 00:36:50.420
that was something Nicole said to me on
00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:51.940
one of our trips back from one of
00:36:51.940 --> 00:36:54.525
her treatments, many treatments at the hospital. She
00:36:54.525 --> 00:36:55.345
said, "Mom,"
00:36:55.965 --> 00:36:57.405
just out of the blue, "I think the
00:36:57.405 --> 00:36:59.085
reason that we're here on earth is to
00:36:59.085 --> 00:37:00.065
help each other."
00:37:00.845 --> 00:37:03.105
And it just came out of nowhere.
00:37:03.885 --> 00:37:06.730
And I was like, that's so true. That's
00:37:06.730 --> 00:37:08.570
all we need to do is help each
00:37:08.570 --> 00:37:09.070
other.
00:37:09.930 --> 00:37:10.430
So
00:37:12.090 --> 00:37:14.270
we need to stay out of judgment.
00:37:14.330 --> 00:37:15.870
Judgment is so damaging
00:37:16.810 --> 00:37:18.830
and we know so little,
00:37:19.385 --> 00:37:22.025
we have no idea what's going on with
00:37:22.025 --> 00:37:22.765
other people.
00:37:23.225 --> 00:37:25.245
So if we could separate out
00:37:26.265 --> 00:37:27.325
the person
00:37:28.425 --> 00:37:29.405
from the
00:37:30.105 --> 00:37:30.605
behaviors
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.120
that would go a long way. I mean,
00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:36.620
we are all from the same stuff.
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:38.620
We are all part of source
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:39.900
and
00:37:41.240 --> 00:37:44.040
all of everything that comes from a source
00:37:44.040 --> 00:37:44.940
is perfection.
00:37:46.405 --> 00:37:47.705
Only humans judge.
00:37:48.485 --> 00:37:50.505
Our spirit selves
00:37:50.965 --> 00:37:51.785
in our
00:37:52.405 --> 00:37:55.205
native spirit state, we don't judge because
00:37:55.205 --> 00:37:57.445
we're part of source. And so even source
00:37:57.445 --> 00:37:58.345
doesn't judge.
00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:00.710
We can be discerning. We can
00:38:00.710 --> 00:38:03.210
say there's a difference between discernment and judgment.
00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:04.970
We can say
00:38:05.430 --> 00:38:07.130
that behavior is harmful
00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:08.970
and it's inciting
00:38:09.430 --> 00:38:10.890
more harmful behavior.
00:38:11.270 --> 00:38:12.570
That would be discerning.
00:38:13.535 --> 00:38:14.755
But if we say
00:38:15.935 --> 00:38:18.735
you are a horrible, awful person and you
00:38:18.735 --> 00:38:19.875
need to be condemned,
00:38:21.135 --> 00:38:22.995
that's not our place to do that.
00:38:23.695 --> 00:38:25.855
I believe that not even God does
00:38:25.855 --> 00:38:26.355
that
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:27.380
because,
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.400
yeah, I'm not down with this whole hell
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:30.900
thing.
00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:33.780
I mean,
00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:34.900
what parent
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:36.660
condemns their child,
00:38:38.080 --> 00:38:40.660
especially since it's part of us, you know?
00:38:40.745 --> 00:38:42.745
We don't condemn our kids when they make
00:38:42.745 --> 00:38:45.065
mistakes. We're like, "That was not a good
00:38:45.065 --> 00:38:47.325
idea. Maybe you'd like to rethink that."
00:38:48.185 --> 00:38:48.765
You don't,
00:38:49.225 --> 00:38:51.245
you know, torture them for eternity.
00:38:52.185 --> 00:38:54.880
That never made sense to me. So yeah,
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:56.740
we just need to learn to be
00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:59.460
kinder and, more and more, I think,
00:39:00.560 --> 00:39:03.380
especially the world situation right now,
00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:07.520
nothing changes unless we know it needs to
00:39:07.520 --> 00:39:08.020
change.
00:39:09.225 --> 00:39:09.725
So
00:39:10.185 --> 00:39:12.205
all of the hatred and vitriol
00:39:12.505 --> 00:39:13.005
and
00:39:13.865 --> 00:39:15.805
nastiness that we see right now,
00:39:17.225 --> 00:39:19.465
that's been there for a long time. It's
00:39:19.465 --> 00:39:19.965
just
00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:22.760
decades ago, it was just under the radar.
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:23.500
We pretended
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:24.540
all this
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:26.860
child abuse and
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:28.940
all kinds of negative things
00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:30.780
and misogyny
00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:31.740
and patriarchy
00:39:32.200 --> 00:39:34.780
and racism, all those negative things,
00:39:36.855 --> 00:39:39.435
all under the radar. They weren't very public
00:39:40.375 --> 00:39:43.515
and now they are in our face
00:39:43.975 --> 00:39:45.115
all the time.
00:39:45.815 --> 00:39:46.635
And we
00:39:47.190 --> 00:39:49.750
recognize it as something that's not very
00:39:49.750 --> 00:39:51.910
good, but you know, what if that were
00:39:51.910 --> 00:39:52.570
a gift?
00:39:53.110 --> 00:39:55.370
What if those people who are doing that
00:39:56.230 --> 00:39:57.370
are instrumental
00:39:59.205 --> 00:39:59.705
in
00:40:00.165 --> 00:40:00.905
saying, "Hey,
00:40:01.525 --> 00:40:04.025
look at this. You're pretending this wasn't here."
Kate:
00:40:05.045 --> 00:40:06.325
And then it brings it
00:40:06.325 --> 00:40:07.465
out into the open
00:40:07.925 --> 00:40:08.665
and then
00:40:09.285 --> 00:40:11.860
we can actually deal with it.
Marla:
00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:14.720
Yes. We can make other choices, but if
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:16.820
we don't acknowledge that it's there
00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:19.600
and we don't look at it, then that
00:40:19.600 --> 00:40:20.740
is going to continue
00:40:21.520 --> 00:40:24.340
and continue to have, you know, an underlying
00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:25.780
influence on everything.
00:40:26.355 --> 00:40:27.875
But now we can look at it and
00:40:27.875 --> 00:40:29.955
make the choice. "No, I don't like that.
00:40:29.955 --> 00:40:32.435
That doesn't feel good. It's not creating the
00:40:32.435 --> 00:40:34.595
kind of world that I want to share
00:40:34.595 --> 00:40:35.575
with other people."
00:40:35.875 --> 00:40:37.635
And that's another thing. When I talk about
00:40:37.635 --> 00:40:39.315
my work, I never say I'm trying to
00:40:39.315 --> 00:40:41.460
change the world. That was really, really clear
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.000
to me in some of my contemplations.
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:46.200
My job is to change me.
00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:47.560
And
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:50.740
if I can have a positive impact on
00:40:50.740 --> 00:40:53.300
anybody, there is this, not just with me,
00:40:53.300 --> 00:40:55.560
but there's this massive ripple effect.
00:40:56.345 --> 00:40:57.965
And especially if you're vulnerable,
00:40:59.465 --> 00:41:00.925
vulnerability is the,
00:41:01.385 --> 00:41:03.145
you know, it's the key to trust. It's
00:41:03.145 --> 00:41:04.445
the currency of trust.
00:41:05.065 --> 00:41:06.125
If you can
00:41:06.665 --> 00:41:09.705
be vulnerable and talk about your own, your
00:41:09.705 --> 00:41:12.230
own failings and your own things that you're
00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.570
going through, or the, you know, the metamorphosis
00:41:14.790 --> 00:41:15.850
you've gone through,
00:41:16.790 --> 00:41:17.850
then people
00:41:18.150 --> 00:41:21.110
resonate. They want to be at that
00:41:21.110 --> 00:41:22.250
level of feeling
00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:24.490
about what's going on with themselves.
00:41:25.335 --> 00:41:27.355
And it gives them permission to do that.
00:41:27.735 --> 00:41:30.535
And some other people can
00:41:30.535 --> 00:41:31.035
relate.
Kate:
00:41:31.335 --> 00:41:31.835
So
00:41:32.135 --> 00:41:33.995
that shows us how
00:41:34.455 --> 00:41:37.515
alike we are versus how separate we are.
Marla:
00:41:37.735 --> 00:41:40.235
Exactly. And I think this is particularly true
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:41.900
with people who
00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.200
are very well known and held in high
00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:44.700
esteem.
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.200
When they can become vulnerable, people say, "Oh
00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:50.520
my gosh, they're going through that. I'm going
00:41:50.520 --> 00:41:51.260
through that."
00:41:51.640 --> 00:41:53.900
It kind of gives them permission to
00:41:54.395 --> 00:41:56.795
feel the things that they're feeling and to
00:41:56.795 --> 00:41:58.895
own the thought process that they have
00:41:59.195 --> 00:42:00.975
and to be who they really are.
00:42:01.435 --> 00:42:03.135
So, yeah, I think it's very valuable.
Kate:
00:42:05.195 --> 00:42:05.695
So
00:42:06.520 --> 00:42:08.540
some of what we've been
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.560
talking about just now, what you have been
00:42:11.560 --> 00:42:14.040
talking about, it sounds like it's part of
00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:15.340
the Positive Intelligence
00:42:16.040 --> 00:42:16.540
work.
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:17.980
Is that right?
Marla:
00:42:18.855 --> 00:42:21.575
Yeah. This whole judgment piece absolutely is. I
00:42:21.575 --> 00:42:24.135
mean, the Positive Intelligence work focuses a lot
00:42:24.135 --> 00:42:26.795
on teaching us about our Master Judge.
00:42:27.495 --> 00:42:29.255
I have people, new clients, who say
00:42:29.255 --> 00:42:31.095
to me, "Well, I don't really judge very
00:42:31.095 --> 00:42:32.475
much." And I'm like, okay,
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:35.380
you back out of your driveway in your
00:42:35.380 --> 00:42:35.880
car
00:42:36.340 --> 00:42:38.100
and you start going down the street and
00:42:38.100 --> 00:42:40.660
somebody is going too slow or they're sitting
00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:42.680
at the stop sign on their phone.
00:42:44.100 --> 00:42:46.360
You're not getting lit up about that?
00:42:47.955 --> 00:42:50.675
You know, we do that. We WTF, we
00:42:50.675 --> 00:42:51.335
do whatever
00:42:51.715 --> 00:42:52.375
we do.
00:42:53.235 --> 00:42:55.875
We judge the people in our lives. We
00:42:55.875 --> 00:42:56.855
judge circumstances,
00:42:57.155 --> 00:42:59.235
we judge ourselves and we judge each other.
00:42:59.235 --> 00:43:01.655
And in addition to that Master Judge
00:43:02.020 --> 00:43:03.000
that is constantly
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:05.240
creating this,
00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:08.600
you know, the cyclone of dysfunction,
00:43:10.340 --> 00:43:12.280
the Positive Intelligence work,
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:16.200
it's research based and they've come up with
00:43:16.455 --> 00:43:16.955
these
00:43:17.335 --> 00:43:17.915
nine primary
00:43:19.335 --> 00:43:19.835
saboteurs,
00:43:20.295 --> 00:43:21.355
additional saboteurs,
00:43:21.975 --> 00:43:24.475
things like the Stickler, the Controller, the Pleaser,
00:43:24.535 --> 00:43:25.195
the Hyperachiever,
00:43:25.575 --> 00:43:26.235
the Victim,
00:43:26.855 --> 00:43:28.155
they're accomplice saboteurs
00:43:28.455 --> 00:43:31.080
that the Judge pulls in. And we all
00:43:31.080 --> 00:43:32.780
have them in varying degrees.
00:43:33.560 --> 00:43:36.300
I, for instance, have a very restless Saboteur.
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:40.140
And sometimes these accomplice saboteurs
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:41.900
tag team with each other,
00:43:42.615 --> 00:43:43.115
Like
00:43:44.055 --> 00:43:47.675
your Controller and your Pleaser will tag team.
00:43:47.975 --> 00:43:49.595
I can give you a really good example
00:43:49.815 --> 00:43:51.275
about this because I
00:43:51.575 --> 00:43:53.735
had my Pleaser — it's not as strong as
00:43:53.735 --> 00:43:56.210
it used to be, but the Pleaser will
00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:56.950
tell you
00:43:57.330 --> 00:43:59.410
that you're doing all these good things for
00:43:59.410 --> 00:44:00.150
other people
00:44:00.930 --> 00:44:03.650
because you're kind and you want to help
00:44:03.650 --> 00:44:05.190
them and you're loving,
00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:08.310
but it's often not being honest.
00:44:08.865 --> 00:44:09.605
You're often
00:44:10.145 --> 00:44:11.125
sort of sublimating
00:44:11.425 --> 00:44:12.565
your own needs,
00:44:12.865 --> 00:44:15.505
which in turn does not allow you to
00:44:15.505 --> 00:44:16.565
have an open,
00:44:17.505 --> 00:44:20.225
completely honest relationship with someone else so that
00:44:20.225 --> 00:44:22.225
they know what your needs are, too, which
00:44:22.225 --> 00:44:24.405
is really important in a healthy relationship.
00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:26.380
But the truth is
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.320
the way the Controller gets in there, the
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:31.880
Controller is involved in that process too, because
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:33.500
the Controller says to
00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:34.780
you, "No,
00:44:35.240 --> 00:44:36.840
I can take care of that thing for
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.140
that person over there.
00:44:38.795 --> 00:44:39.295
Because
00:44:39.995 --> 00:44:42.475
when you do that for that person, he's
00:44:42.475 --> 00:44:43.615
in a better mood.
00:44:44.075 --> 00:44:45.995
And then the time you spend together is
00:44:45.995 --> 00:44:46.495
happier
00:44:47.595 --> 00:44:49.695
because he's not all stressed out."
00:44:50.570 --> 00:44:51.790
This is just an example.
Kate:
00:44:53.530 --> 00:44:55.290
So who's he, who are you talking to?
Marla:
00:44:55.290 --> 00:44:57.950
Any hypothetical, any other person. Or my
00:44:58.570 --> 00:45:00.890
mom, you know: "OK, If I do all
00:45:00.890 --> 00:45:02.410
this stuff for my mom
00:45:02.410 --> 00:45:04.170
or my dad, and I keep them
00:45:04.170 --> 00:45:04.670
happy ..."
Kate:
00:45:05.205 --> 00:45:05.945
Oh, then you're in
00:45:06.965 --> 00:45:08.425
control.
Marla:
00:45:08.805 --> 00:45:10.345
Yeah. If you control the situation,
00:45:10.725 --> 00:45:12.725
the Pleaser will tell you it's because you're
00:45:12.725 --> 00:45:13.945
being nice and helpful.
00:45:14.245 --> 00:45:15.465
But the truth is
00:45:15.925 --> 00:45:16.905
you are manipulating
00:45:17.285 --> 00:45:17.785
things.
00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:19.225
You are controlling
00:45:20.230 --> 00:45:20.810
a situation
00:45:22.470 --> 00:45:24.710
so that you can get something back, which
00:45:24.710 --> 00:45:25.210
is
00:45:25.590 --> 00:45:26.570
maybe praise,
00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:29.350
maybe, you know, approval of some kind, maybe
00:45:29.350 --> 00:45:31.830
a more peaceful environment, whatever it happens to
00:45:31.830 --> 00:45:32.330
be.
00:45:33.075 --> 00:45:35.315
That's just an example of how they tag
00:45:35.315 --> 00:45:38.035
team. So I take the assessment myself every
00:45:38.035 --> 00:45:39.735
once in a while to see what's changed.
00:45:40.115 --> 00:45:42.135
And I used to have a very high
00:45:42.515 --> 00:45:45.555
Pleaser saboteur, but that's now dropped down. And
00:45:45.555 --> 00:45:48.780
instead the Avoider and the Restless Saboteur are
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.121
tag-teaming together. I have always had a
00:45:49.121 --> 00:45:49.660
Restless Saboteur since I was little. And I
00:45:49.660 --> 00:45:51.360
realized that once I did this work.
00:45:52.220 --> 00:45:54.060
I used to get up in school and
00:45:54.060 --> 00:45:55.040
walk around and
00:46:00.805 --> 00:46:01.305
I
00:46:01.605 --> 00:46:03.145
just could never sit still.
00:46:04.085 --> 00:46:06.005
And that shows up in my adult life
00:46:06.005 --> 00:46:09.045
as well by being easily distracted. If I
00:46:09.045 --> 00:46:11.145
have to do something that I'm not familiar
00:46:11.205 --> 00:46:13.545
with, or that doesn't come easily to me,
00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:17.320
that's why the Avoider has jumped in,
00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:20.100
come up to the top of my top three.
Kate:
00:46:20.100 --> 00:46:22.680
I'm well-acquainted with the Avoider!
Marla:
00:46:23.140 --> 00:46:26.020
Yes. Many people are. "I'm avoiding doing some
00:46:26.020 --> 00:46:28.905
things because maybe I think I'll fail or
00:46:28.905 --> 00:46:30.685
maybe it's not, maybe it's
00:46:31.305 --> 00:46:32.925
more difficult for me to do
00:46:33.545 --> 00:46:35.865
it than something I'm familiar with that I
00:46:35.865 --> 00:46:37.565
can just knock out like that."
00:46:38.745 --> 00:46:39.245
So
00:46:39.705 --> 00:46:41.325
that's my current challenge,
00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:44.500
but we all have them. We all have
00:46:44.500 --> 00:46:46.600
them. If we're drawing breath,
00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:49.540
we absolutely have the Judge. So there are
00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:51.300
exercises you can do. And what I love
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:53.860
about Positive Intelligence is that it's grounded in
00:46:53.860 --> 00:46:54.360
science
00:46:54.965 --> 00:46:58.005
and you can go on Google and see
00:46:58.005 --> 00:46:59.465
any kind of neuroscience
00:47:00.485 --> 00:47:02.905
information, and it will confirm to you
00:47:03.845 --> 00:47:04.905
how our body
00:47:05.925 --> 00:47:07.065
can help us.
00:47:07.550 --> 00:47:09.650
So in Positive Intelligence, for instance,
00:47:10.430 --> 00:47:11.250
we really
00:47:11.550 --> 00:47:12.050
get
00:47:12.750 --> 00:47:13.810
focused on
00:47:14.430 --> 00:47:16.350
touch and things in our body and how
00:47:16.350 --> 00:47:18.530
things feel, because what happens is
00:47:18.910 --> 00:47:21.170
it builds a neural pathway
00:47:21.695 --> 00:47:23.775
to the positive part of your mind where
00:47:23.775 --> 00:47:25.315
we call it the Sage mind.
00:47:26.255 --> 00:47:29.055
And in the Sage mind, the Sage powers
00:47:29.055 --> 00:47:32.195
are things like the Empathize power, Explore,
00:47:33.455 --> 00:47:37.260
Navigate, Innovate, Activate, and they all have special
00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:38.800
ways that they help you.
00:47:39.260 --> 00:47:41.580
And that part of your mind is primarily
00:47:41.580 --> 00:47:42.800
the right side of your brain.
00:47:43.420 --> 00:47:46.240
That's where clearly is our focus. Thinking happens,
00:47:46.460 --> 00:47:46.960
curiosity,
00:47:47.580 --> 00:47:48.800
empathy, compassion,
00:47:49.825 --> 00:47:52.385
kindness, happiness, all those things that make our
00:47:52.385 --> 00:47:54.965
life worth living. And that's not to say
00:47:55.025 --> 00:47:57.265
that the data driven part of our mind
00:47:57.265 --> 00:47:58.945
isn't important. Of course it is. We have
00:47:58.945 --> 00:48:01.345
to navigate the world, but this is also
00:48:01.345 --> 00:48:03.605
where fight or flight happens and survival.
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:05.500
Survival brain
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:08.520
is wonderful to help alert you to something
00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:09.500
that's going on,
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:11.900
but it's not good for resolution.
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.780
I mean, technical resolution that is data driven,
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:17.340
yes.
00:48:17.795 --> 00:48:18.295
But
00:48:19.075 --> 00:48:21.955
you know, even really, really successful businesses will
00:48:21.955 --> 00:48:22.695
tell you
00:48:23.395 --> 00:48:25.635
that the most important thing in their business
00:48:25.635 --> 00:48:28.035
is their human capital, the people that are
00:48:28.035 --> 00:48:28.535
there.
00:48:28.915 --> 00:48:31.840
And of course, all those behaviors that make
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:32.660
those interactions
00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:33.460
positive
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.140
and help move productivity
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:35.940
forward.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.740
It's all, it's all right brain stuff.
00:48:39.120 --> 00:48:41.620
So these exercises called PQ exercises,
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.980
they help you get into your body. And
00:48:45.795 --> 00:48:47.735
when you're in the present moment,
00:48:49.395 --> 00:48:50.935
very focused on now,
00:48:51.475 --> 00:48:53.895
you can't be thinking about
00:48:54.755 --> 00:48:56.695
past issues or the future.
00:48:57.475 --> 00:48:58.375
There's no,
00:48:58.700 --> 00:49:00.780
you know, there's no wisdom in chaos. And
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:02.240
when your mind is in chaos,
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:06.140
in turmoil, thinking about past transgressions or
00:49:06.140 --> 00:49:06.640
future
00:49:07.660 --> 00:49:08.160
catastrophizing
00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:09.520
about things,
00:49:09.980 --> 00:49:12.220
that's not helping you. So we have to
00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:13.680
be in the present moment.
Kate:
00:49:14.835 --> 00:49:16.055
So you're a certified coach?
Marla:
00:49:16.835 --> 00:49:19.395
Yes.
Kate:
00:49:19.395 --> 00:49:21.575
And so what would you say about it, Positive Intelligence
00:49:21.955 --> 00:49:22.455
coaching,
00:49:23.235 --> 00:49:25.095
to kind of capsulize
00:49:25.395 --> 00:49:27.555
what it does for you?
Marla:
00:49:27.555 --> 00:49:28.935
So the reason that I became a coach
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.240
was because a colleague introduced me to it.
00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:33.760
And as soon as I started doing the
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:35.060
work myself, I immediately
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.620
realized that it was going to be so
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.200
helpful for my grief clients once they did
00:49:41.200 --> 00:49:43.520
the grief work. So I typically bundle it
00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:44.020
together.
00:49:45.205 --> 00:49:46.885
And clients go through the grief work with
00:49:46.885 --> 00:49:48.805
me, and then I take them, I take
00:49:48.805 --> 00:49:51.205
them into the Positive Intelligence work. And the
00:49:51.205 --> 00:49:52.965
reason I do that is because once they've
00:49:52.965 --> 00:49:54.105
done the grief work,
00:49:54.485 --> 00:49:55.865
they can set aside
00:49:56.725 --> 00:49:57.225
their
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:00.960
connection to all that pain in the past.
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.120
They've let that go. It doesn't mean they've
00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:03.860
let their
00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:05.700
wonderful memories go
00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:07.060
or their love
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:09.840
or that they're pretending it didn't happen. No,
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.625
we get through that in a healthy way.
00:50:11.625 --> 00:50:13.545
And I've literally seen this happen. It's one
00:50:13.545 --> 00:50:15.325
of the things I love about Zoom.
00:50:16.345 --> 00:50:18.745
When people arrive at that place, I can
00:50:18.745 --> 00:50:21.465
literally see their face light up. Their whole
00:50:21.465 --> 00:50:22.445
image changes.
Kate:
00:50:23.225 --> 00:50:23.965
Oh, wow.
Marla:
00:50:24.425 --> 00:50:26.045
It's magic to watch.
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:28.700
And even their
00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:32.120
family and co-workers notice and will say things
00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:33.800
like, "Oh my gosh, you look so much
00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:35.020
happier. What's happened?"
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:37.020
So when this
00:50:37.640 --> 00:50:39.020
beautiful, light, energetic
00:50:39.415 --> 00:50:41.815
space opens up, then they are ready for,
00:50:41.815 --> 00:50:42.315
"OK,
00:50:43.255 --> 00:50:45.495
now what, what else? What can I do?"
00:50:45.495 --> 00:50:47.175
And that's when I take them into
00:50:47.255 --> 00:50:48.715
Positive Intelligence, because
00:50:49.415 --> 00:50:51.435
then it helps them identify
00:50:52.950 --> 00:50:56.330
ways that they are still maybe sabotaging themselves.
00:50:57.350 --> 00:50:59.350
And we all, we all have different degrees
00:50:59.350 --> 00:51:00.010
of it,
00:51:00.470 --> 00:51:02.570
but it's just super helpful. And
00:51:03.270 --> 00:51:05.210
the Positive Intelligence work actually
00:51:05.955 --> 00:51:08.195
can have an effect on future grief events,
00:51:08.195 --> 00:51:08.695
because
00:51:10.195 --> 00:51:11.255
if you are learning
00:51:11.635 --> 00:51:13.175
better ways to
00:51:13.715 --> 00:51:14.935
interact with people,
00:51:16.275 --> 00:51:19.735
it makes your relationships stronger and you're more
00:51:20.640 --> 00:51:23.120
apt to be living in the present moment
00:51:23.120 --> 00:51:25.140
and very aware of what's going on.
00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:26.900
And that in turn
00:51:27.200 --> 00:51:30.000
decreases the chance that you are doing things
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:30.740
that you'll,
00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:33.615
if someone passes for instance, that you would
00:51:33.615 --> 00:51:35.295
end up saying, "I wish I'd done that
00:51:35.295 --> 00:51:37.055
differently." Or "I wish I hadn't said that."
00:51:37.055 --> 00:51:39.135
Well, if you're doing the Positive Intelligence work,
00:51:39.135 --> 00:51:42.095
you likely will not have said things. You
00:51:42.095 --> 00:51:43.955
have created these healthier relationships.
00:51:45.560 --> 00:51:48.520
So I find it's, you know, wonderful for
00:51:48.520 --> 00:51:51.560
helping people move forward, but also wonderful in
00:51:51.560 --> 00:51:52.300
helping them
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.000
create the kind of relationships that they never
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:56.760
have to look back on and say, you
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.300
know, "I could have done that better."
Kate:
00:51:58.925 --> 00:51:59.825
That's wonderful.
00:52:00.285 --> 00:52:02.625
Is the only entry into
00:52:03.485 --> 00:52:05.885
it by having grief?
Marla:
00:52:05.885 --> 00:52:07.645
No, I have done it. And by the way, that is the
00:52:07.645 --> 00:52:09.645
one thing I do in a group, because
00:52:09.645 --> 00:52:12.065
it's so helpful for people to share
00:52:12.770 --> 00:52:15.570
their experiences with these accomplished saboteurs and their
00:52:15.570 --> 00:52:17.510
Judge. It helps them feel,
00:52:17.810 --> 00:52:20.290
"Oh my gosh, me too." So they
00:52:20.290 --> 00:52:22.770
realize that, "OK, we're all going through this."
00:52:22.770 --> 00:52:25.970
No human escapes this at all.
Kate:
00:52:25.970 --> 00:52:28.215
You wrote a piece that you shared with me,
00:52:28.535 --> 00:52:31.255
and it was about this judge.
Marla:
00:52:31.415 --> 00:52:32.875
"The Tyranny of the Judge."
Kate:
00:52:33.175 --> 00:52:36.215
Yes.
00:52:36.215 --> 00:52:36.695
And it was so powerful. And immediately,
00:52:37.175 --> 00:52:39.435
I told you this already, but I immediately
00:52:39.575 --> 00:52:40.635
saw my own
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:43.800
self in it. And so I understand what
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:44.460
you're saying
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:45.820
with your groups.
Marla:
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:48.680
Yeah. On my website, I call it Mental
00:52:48.680 --> 00:52:50.940
Fitness Mastery, but I use the Positive Intelligence
00:52:51.080 --> 00:52:53.500
word for it. Mental fitness is just,
00:52:53.835 --> 00:52:56.075
it's actually more important, I think, than physical
00:52:56.075 --> 00:52:57.935
fitness. But if you went to the gym,
00:52:57.995 --> 00:52:59.595
you wouldn't go for six weeks and say,
00:52:59.595 --> 00:53:02.015
"OK, I'm fit for life now." No.
00:53:02.315 --> 00:53:04.635
And it's the same thing with this. Mental
00:53:04.635 --> 00:53:07.140
fitness is a practice for life. There are
00:53:07.140 --> 00:53:08.820
things that you can do if you maintain
00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:09.640
these practices.
00:53:10.340 --> 00:53:12.660
And we're always more likely to do that
00:53:12.660 --> 00:53:13.800
if we're in a group,
00:53:14.180 --> 00:53:16.680
because there's that group encouragement effect.
00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:19.300
And it's just been proven to be, you
00:53:19.300 --> 00:53:21.780
know, you adhere to things better. You encourage
00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:22.520
each other.
00:53:22.865 --> 00:53:24.865
So yes, it's better in a group. And
00:53:24.865 --> 00:53:26.705
I have done, in fact, I have a
00:53:26.705 --> 00:53:28.625
group right now that is a mix of
00:53:28.625 --> 00:53:30.545
people who've done grief work and who haven't.
00:53:30.545 --> 00:53:32.385
So yes, I do it separately as
00:53:32.385 --> 00:53:34.945
well. But often what happens is when they
00:53:34.945 --> 00:53:37.800
start doing the Positive Intelligence work, they realize,
00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:39.380
you know, "I probably need to do some
00:53:39.380 --> 00:53:41.620
grief work as well." And we have different
00:53:41.620 --> 00:53:44.180
kinds of grief too.
Kate:
00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:46.820
So that's what made me ask that question that it may not
00:53:46.820 --> 00:53:47.320
be
00:53:48.500 --> 00:53:49.000
specifically,
00:53:49.795 --> 00:53:52.355
you know, a passing, but it's still a
00:53:52.355 --> 00:53:54.615
loss.
Marla:
00:53:55.155 --> 00:53:57.315
Yes. Really good point. In fact, I've had clients who have
00:53:57.315 --> 00:53:59.155
come to me, for instance, for the loss
00:53:59.155 --> 00:54:01.735
of a child. And I explained to them,
00:54:01.990 --> 00:54:03.850
the first thing that we do is
00:54:04.150 --> 00:54:05.670
we go back and we do kind of
00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:06.570
a life review
00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:08.790
and we look at your losses from the
00:54:08.790 --> 00:54:11.110
beginning. And they'll say, "I haven't really
00:54:11.110 --> 00:54:13.990
had any other losses." Because people are so embedded
00:54:13.990 --> 00:54:16.810
in their minds, a loss means someone's died.
00:54:17.295 --> 00:54:19.215
It is the primary, just like you've
00:54:19.215 --> 00:54:21.615
said, just the primary big one. And I
00:54:21.615 --> 00:54:23.695
model everything. So when I go through mine,
00:54:23.695 --> 00:54:25.155
they're like, "Oh my gosh."
00:54:26.015 --> 00:54:27.555
And it's big stuff.
00:54:28.815 --> 00:54:31.315
If you've been
00:54:31.620 --> 00:54:34.840
sexually abused in any way, or you felt
00:54:35.060 --> 00:54:36.520
compromised as a child,
00:54:37.140 --> 00:54:38.200
if you had
00:54:38.500 --> 00:54:40.740
not been in a loving environment, if you've
00:54:40.740 --> 00:54:43.800
been emotionally abused, those are all grief events.
00:54:44.385 --> 00:54:47.345
And the more we stuff those down and
00:54:47.345 --> 00:54:48.885
don't acknowledge them,
00:54:49.185 --> 00:54:50.725
they stick with you forever
00:54:51.345 --> 00:54:54.785
and they impact your adult life. And it renders
00:54:54.785 --> 00:54:57.365
you incapable of having healthy relationships.
00:54:58.050 --> 00:54:59.430
It'll show up in
00:54:59.970 --> 00:55:01.590
alcohol abuse, drug abuse,
00:55:02.610 --> 00:55:03.510
sex addiction,
00:55:04.290 --> 00:55:06.770
all of these things, any way to soothe
00:55:06.770 --> 00:55:07.990
yourself in a way
00:55:08.770 --> 00:55:11.570
that should have happened by addressing your grief
00:55:11.570 --> 00:55:13.555
when you were little. So yes, there are
00:55:13.555 --> 00:55:16.515
many, many things, even things like the loss
00:55:16.515 --> 00:55:18.375
of the ability to,
00:55:19.075 --> 00:55:21.155
to control your body. If you've had, you
00:55:21.155 --> 00:55:23.255
know, a major illness or a major accident.
00:55:23.875 --> 00:55:26.055
That's absolutely ... even for a child
00:55:26.490 --> 00:55:28.330
having to leave a home that they've lived
00:55:28.330 --> 00:55:30.270
in for ages, or divorce.
00:55:30.970 --> 00:55:33.070
All of these things count for sure.
00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:34.750
Bullying at school.
Kate:
00:55:35.530 --> 00:55:36.030
Yeah.
00:55:36.330 --> 00:55:36.830
Wow.
00:55:37.770 --> 00:55:39.610
So you do, as I said at the
00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:42.465
beginning, you do important work.
Marla:
Oh, thank you.
Kate:
00:55:42.465 --> 00:55:43.445
Healing work.
Marla:
00:55:44.465 --> 00:55:45.765
Yeah. It's very rewarding.
00:55:46.145 --> 00:55:46.965
Very rewarding.
Kate:
00:55:47.665 --> 00:55:50.545
I bet. Is there anything else you want to
00:55:50.545 --> 00:55:51.525
say about it?
Marla:
00:55:52.625 --> 00:55:55.205
Just that it's not as scary as it
00:55:55.825 --> 00:55:56.885
seems
00:55:57.530 --> 00:55:59.770
when you have someone sort of guiding you
00:55:59.770 --> 00:56:01.710
through it, and you're not alone,
00:56:02.090 --> 00:56:02.830
you know.
00:56:03.850 --> 00:56:06.250
We're all from the same stuff. We're all
00:56:06.250 --> 00:56:09.130
going through some degree of the same things,
00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:11.150
and there's no need to be ashamed
00:56:11.475 --> 00:56:13.395
or feel guilt. And I always tell my
00:56:13.395 --> 00:56:13.895
clients,
00:56:14.835 --> 00:56:17.715
you can't, you can't shock me. I've either
00:56:17.715 --> 00:56:19.415
done it or I've heard it.
00:56:19.715 --> 00:56:20.215
So,
00:56:21.155 --> 00:56:23.155
so yeah, I would just say your mental
00:56:23.155 --> 00:56:25.620
fitness is so important and it has to
00:56:25.620 --> 00:56:27.160
be a lifelong practice.
00:56:27.620 --> 00:56:30.340
And beginning with grief work is healthy. And
00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:32.200
here's one more thing I would say.
00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:35.300
There are so many people I talk to
00:56:35.300 --> 00:56:35.800
who
00:56:37.060 --> 00:56:38.360
want to do the work,
00:56:39.795 --> 00:56:42.135
but being willing to invest in it
00:56:42.675 --> 00:56:44.755
is maybe a different thing. And that doesn't
00:56:44.755 --> 00:56:46.435
just go for this kind of work, but
00:56:46.435 --> 00:56:48.435
maybe you should be getting some physical therapy
00:56:48.435 --> 00:56:50.515
or maybe you should be getting a massage
00:56:50.515 --> 00:56:51.875
every once in a while, or maybe you
00:56:51.875 --> 00:56:53.495
should be going to the gym.
00:56:54.030 --> 00:56:55.570
Lots of times people will
00:56:57.150 --> 00:56:59.470
just somehow put it aside and spend their
00:56:59.470 --> 00:57:02.290
money on something else. Make yourself a priority.
00:57:02.430 --> 00:57:03.650
I promise you
00:57:04.510 --> 00:57:05.810
that when you do
00:57:06.430 --> 00:57:07.730
everything can change
00:57:08.465 --> 00:57:10.865
in a practical sense, in a spiritual sense,
00:57:10.865 --> 00:57:13.825
in an emotional sense. So absolutely invest in
00:57:13.825 --> 00:57:14.325
yourself.
00:57:15.025 --> 00:57:16.805
You and your relationships,
00:57:17.105 --> 00:57:18.645
the constellation of relationships
00:57:19.025 --> 00:57:21.285
in your life, will all benefit for sure.
Kate:
00:57:21.810 --> 00:57:24.070
How do people get ahold of you?
Marla:
00:57:24.610 --> 00:57:26.530
They can reach me if you go to
00:57:26.530 --> 00:57:28.710
my website at inspiredgriefrecovery.com.
00:57:29.810 --> 00:57:31.110
If you scroll down,
00:57:31.490 --> 00:57:34.130
there's a link. You can connect with me
00:57:34.130 --> 00:57:36.555
for a 30-minute call or send me
00:57:36.555 --> 00:57:38.095
an email at marla@inspiredgriefrecovery.com.
00:57:40.635 --> 00:57:43.515
And on Instagram and Facebook under Inspired Grief
00:57:43.515 --> 00:57:44.655
Recovery.
00:57:45.195 --> 00:57:47.835
I know that people need encouragement and, you
00:57:47.835 --> 00:57:49.835
know, not everybody's goint to agree with the things
00:57:49.835 --> 00:57:52.300
that I say and that's OK. That's OK.
00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:54.240
That's the other thing that I really respect.
00:57:54.940 --> 00:57:56.480
Everyone's in a different place.
00:57:56.780 --> 00:57:59.020
I may not be right about things, but
00:57:59.020 --> 00:58:00.800
this is where I'm at right now.
00:58:01.340 --> 00:58:03.520
You know, our beliefs ... and our orientation
00:58:04.095 --> 00:58:06.415
changes over time. I don't believe the same
00:58:06.415 --> 00:58:08.435
things now that I did 10 years ago.
00:58:09.215 --> 00:58:11.455
Ten years ago, I believed things differently than
00:58:11.455 --> 00:58:13.615
the previous 10 years, and that's good. That's
00:58:13.615 --> 00:58:14.515
how we grow.
00:58:15.135 --> 00:58:17.715
So just if we can all be accepting
00:58:17.855 --> 00:58:19.395
of where we each are
00:58:19.990 --> 00:58:22.570
and honor that, I think that's super important.
Kate:
00:58:23.350 --> 00:58:24.090
Hear, hear!
Marla:
00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.910
Yeah. Just don't let that judge of self,
00:58:27.910 --> 00:58:28.410
circumstances
00:58:28.790 --> 00:58:30.650
or others get carried away.
Kate:
00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:32.250
Right.
00:58:33.145 --> 00:58:36.525
All right. Well, thank you, Marla.
Marla:
00:58:36.905 --> 00:58:37.405
You're welcome.
00:58:38.025 --> 00:58:40.285
I hope there's something worthwhile in here.
Kate:
00:58:40.985 --> 00:58:41.965
A lot worthwhile.
Marla:
00:58:42.265 --> 00:58:44.185
Oh, great. Well, thank you so much
00:58:44.185 --> 00:58:46.310
for having me, Kate. I appreciate it.
Kate:
00:58:46.310 --> 00:58:48.490
It has been a pleasure.
00:58:48.630 --> 00:58:51.130
This is Kate again, thanking you for listening to Everyday Creation.
00:58:51.590 --> 00:58:52.970
Please share this episode
00:58:53.350 --> 00:58:54.490
as you wish.
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