Inspired Grief Recovery, with Marla Grant

Marla Grant is an Advanced Grief Recovery Specialist and Founding Affiliate Leader of Helping Parents Heal Tampa. She helps parents who have experienced child loss, as well as individuals who are grieving other types of losses, move “from heartache to healing.” 

She also teaches Mental Fitness Mastery as a Certified Positive Intelligence Coach to help clients infuse their world with more kindness and empathy and less judgment and stress.

In this extraordinary interview, which covers physical loss and spiritual connection, Marla shares what she's learned and how she's grown from the loss of three of her children. She encourages individuals who have experienced grief to seek help and support, and to know that healing is possible.

She says that personal responsibility, acceptance and willingness (PAW for short) all were important for her own healing. To learn more, please listen to the episode and visit Marla's website. 

You also can find her on Instagram and Facebook under Inspired Grief Recovery.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Spotify and Audible.

Chapters

• 0:24 Introduction
• 0:35 Interview begins
• 2:50 At the intersection of spirit and form
• 4:41 The loss of a child
• 11:38 Steps to healing
• 13:15 Acceptance, not "should" or "why"
• 18:52 Life is like a dream
• 19:38 Our bodies and our spiritual selves
• 27:53 Grief Recovery Institute certification
• 30:00 Helping children with loss
• 33:39 Grief over the passing of pets
• 34:49 All loss is unique
• 36:09 We're here to help, not judge others
• 42:22 Positive Intelligence!
• 55:37 Healing isn't as scary as it seems
• 57:45 Honor where we are
• 58:47 Kate's closing remarks

Transcript

Kate:
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Hello, and welcome to Everyday Creation,

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a show about living our purpose,

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lifting our vibes, and expressing our creativity

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for the highest good.

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I'm Kate Jones, here with Marla Grant,

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Advanced Grief Recovery Specialist,

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Certified Positive

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Intelligence

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Coach, and Founding Affiliate Leader

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of Helping Parents Heal Tampa.

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Marla,

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welcome to Everyday Creation.

Marla:
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Thank you so much for having me, Kate.

Kate:
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You describe yourself

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as a guide to help people go, quote,

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"from heartache to healing."

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That is quite beautiful.

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Obviously, you're doing important work.

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What led you

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to where you are now?

Marla:
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Well, it's been quite the ride, actually,

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and certainly not one that I ever expected

Kate:
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Or wanted.

Marla:
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Well, yeah. I mean, in some

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way yeah. Of course, in the,

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in the world of form, none of us

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would ever say we had chosen

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all these things to happen to us, but

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there is the thought on a higher

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level that yes, we absolutely had some

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had a hand in planning,

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planning what was going to be the trajectory

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of our lives. So

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of course we forget all that when we

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come here because we can't experience things the

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way we need to experience them, if we

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remember that this is all a game,

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it's all a play. I should

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start by telling you that's one of my

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most important concepts is I really believe in

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what William Shakespeare referred to that, you know,

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all the world's a stage and we all

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have our entrances and our exits.

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And if we can remember that,

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it helps us realize that everyone has a

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part to play

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and that everyone in my life has

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played this part

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in whatever capacity they were meant to. I

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believe that too.

Kate:
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And yet we get so caught up in

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the

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physicality

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here.

Marla:
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Yeah.

Kate:
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That it's just like,

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"Oh, I'm devastated

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about this or that." And

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it's a good reminder

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to come back to who you really are.

Marla:
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Yeah. And, you know, before I get into

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how I got here, I want to also

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say that I tell people that my work

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is really at the intersection

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of the world of spirit and the world

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of form, because

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especially with the parents I work with, helping

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parents heal has a very

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metaphysical orientation.

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So we talk a lot about signs from

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our kids, the different ways that we now

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connect with them,

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you know, in the energetic vibration

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that they're living in now, just in their

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light-being selves.

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And so having a reading or doing anything

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esoteric like that can be very uplifting or

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even whatever you do in your

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own spiritual or religious practice. That can be

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very uplifting.

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However,

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you have a great reading, you have a

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great spiritual session of some kind. And

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guess what? The next day you're right back

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here

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in the world of form,

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living what we're supposed to be living right

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now.

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And that's a whole other set of things

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you need to learn in order to cope.

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And so that's where my work

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is. I absolutely honor the spiritual and I

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do go there once in a while with

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my clients,

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you know, more than once in a while

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probably, but there are specific things I do

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when I teach grief recovery

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that are very grounded in this world.

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So to answer your question,

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my first,

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child that I had, I

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got really, really sick

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and I, I was unconscious for two days

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where I was given last rites

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and I woke up. So I had an

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emergency C-section. I woke up and,

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and was told I had a little

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baby who was five weeks premature.

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He is still with me.

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He's my oldest son living in Atlanta and

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we're very, very close.

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And then the following year I had an

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infant son

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and I was going to do a trial

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labor because, you know, it was thought that

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we didn't necessarily

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have to have another C-section, but things

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went

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disastrously

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wrong.

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And he was deprived of oxygen during the

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birth. And, and he died during the

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delivery.

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So,

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you know,

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that was my first loss of a child

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and it was just the most devastating,

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empty, barren feeling.

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And a lot of people think mistakenly

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that

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because you haven't known that child in this

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life for a long time, that somehow it's

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less ... a miscarriage or a

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stillbirth

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or even a

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neonatal birth are less than the death of

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a child you've known for many years. And

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it's just absolutely not true.

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It's just a different kind of loss, but

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it was extremely deep in its own

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way.

Kate:
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So it took months, didn't it, to really ...?

Marla:
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Well, yeah,

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which leads me to my next one, and

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I can kind of answer that question.

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I got pregnant just 12 weeks later,

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and that baby we named, we also named,

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Shane. Shane was the name of the baby that

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we lost. And then we named the

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new baby Shane, and we were

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uncommonly

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emotionally bonded. And I was sure

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I've always been certain that it was the

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soul of the same child that just

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definitely needed me to be his mom

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and be in our family. And

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that actually was confirmed to me many,

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many years later

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by a highly regarded evidential medium who was

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trying to,

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she read my other two kids and then

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she said, is there a twin? And I

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thought

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she was referring to something else in my

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family, two similar names. And she said, no,

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that's not it.

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And I hadn't told her about

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the baby. And then I told her and

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she said, that's why I can't read him

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over there because he's already back here. And

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I'm like, I knew that.

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So, yeah, so that was really interesting.

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And then I had my daughter

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a few years later, I had my only

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daughter, and when she was 7, she was

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diagnosed with leukemia.

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Shane was her donor

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and she had a bone marrow transplant

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and she did really, really well for about

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six years. And then she,

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unfortunately

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relapsed

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and she passed away just,

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just before her 14th, just after her 14th

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birthday.

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And I had had another son just after

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about 16 months after she was born.

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And they were really, really close,

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just like little twins. And she was like

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a little mother to him.

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And

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his name was Ryan, and

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Ryan,

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you know, was of course really devastated

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when she passed. He was about 12. And

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then when Ryan was 31,

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he, he took his life.

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And I don't believe that it was, I

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believe that the death of his sister might

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have been a contributing factor,

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but I think there were other things going

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on as well. It wasn't drug related or

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anything, but I had always had the feeling

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that he

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somehow was not

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like, almost like he'd come here too early.

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I mean, he just wasn't ready. It was

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like he had one foot in this world

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and one foot in the other world all

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the time.

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So just all three of them  — really, really

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different,

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different types of losses.

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And I experienced them all very differently.

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But by the time,

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of course, certainly by the time Nicole died

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as my second, I was beginning to wonder,

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like, this is, this is really unusual. This

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is a lot, but for sure, by the

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time Ryan died,

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I was like, okay.

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You know, and all along the

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way, of course, I'd been doing a lot

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of spiritual searching.

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I was raised Catholic, but over time, when

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I left home, I was rejecting

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that theology more and more

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and just doing my own learning about other

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religions and spirituality in general.

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And

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I just began to realize that I

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was really meant to do something with this.

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I mean, there was a reason all this

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happened and kind of funny.

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Not too long ago, I was in meditation

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and, I now have this very clear idea

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of the things I want to share,

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but some of them are going to feel

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very out there to a lot of people.

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And so

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I began to question, like, you know, I

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even had a coaching session with a friend

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of mine and the title of the

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coaching session was, do I need to be

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less of me?

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And we had a great coaching session. And

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then I had a meditation and

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I was thinking about,

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you know, all of this. And I

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asked that question.

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And then I typically will write in

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my journal after that. And immediately, the first

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thing that came to me was like almost

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shouting at me,

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how many more children do you have to

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lose before you get it?

Kate:
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Woah.

Marla:
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I know.

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I'm

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like, how many more before, you know, this

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is what you're supposed to do? So I

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was like, okay. Okay. I get it. I get it.

Kate:
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I suppose so.

Marla:
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really, really clear. I mean, I

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have been for the last, you know, since

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probably

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2016,

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I've really been on that trajectory, but this

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is why I talk to you about public

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speaking, and why that feels more and

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more important to me. And I've been

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writing more. And

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so I, yeah, it's

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maybe what I  — not maybe. I'm sure it's

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what ... why would you not take these experience

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that you have  —  and this applies to all

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of us  —  and help other people with it?

Kate:
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Absolutely.

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And we do. We have our life purpose

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and you know it when you are doing it.

Marla:
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Yes. So

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now I just I want to just comment on

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the

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the reference you made to me

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saying that I'm a guide.

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I'm also very clear

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and I tell my clients this, that

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everyone has the answers

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inside them. They have their own personal guidance

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and

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I can't heal anyone.

00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:08.950
I can't do the work for them,

00:11:09.330 --> 00:11:10.230
but I can

00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:13.490
show them the stepping stones in getting to

00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:15.250
where they need to be, but they have

00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:16.310
to do the work.

00:11:16.955 --> 00:11:18.715
They absolutely have to, and they have to

00:11:18.715 --> 00:11:21.295
trust themselves. You know, we have this,

00:11:21.915 --> 00:11:23.295
this innate knowing

00:11:23.915 --> 00:11:25.435
and we just have to learn how to

00:11:25.435 --> 00:11:27.755
tap into that.

Kate:
00:11:27.755 --> 00:11:29.995
Well, that's how I read it. You know, it's in your email

00:11:29.995 --> 00:11:30.495
signature.

00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:32.720
But that's how I read it, that

00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.860
you're a guide to helping them heal themselves.

Marla:
00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.780
Yep. Yeah. And most people don't realize that

00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.840
there are specific steps that you can take,

00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.340
for instance, in healing from a grief event.

00:11:45.035 --> 00:11:45.535
And

00:11:46.075 --> 00:11:48.795
it's not helpful to just keep talking and

00:11:48.795 --> 00:11:51.995
talking and talking about the loss, because all

00:11:51.995 --> 00:11:53.995
that does is it keeps you stuck in

00:11:53.995 --> 00:11:54.655
the story

00:11:55.435 --> 00:11:56.415
of what happened.

00:11:57.070 --> 00:11:58.910
And we don't, we don't want to stay stuck

00:11:58.910 --> 00:12:00.670
in that story. We want to be able

00:12:00.670 --> 00:12:01.170
to

00:12:02.270 --> 00:12:03.330
reflect on it,

00:12:04.510 --> 00:12:06.270
work through the things we need to work

00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:08.120
through. And that's all about the things that

00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:08.204
you wish had been different, better, or more

00:12:08.204 --> 00:12:08.287
in the relationship, because those are the things

00:12:08.287 --> 00:12:09.010
that are left with us that we grieve.

00:12:10.965 --> 00:12:12.051
Those are the things that are

00:12:12.051 --> 00:12:12.585
left with us.

00:12:13.445 --> 00:12:14.685
You know, I wish I had

00:12:14.685 --> 00:12:15.005
done this differently. If only I had maybe

00:12:15.005 --> 00:12:16.405
treated this person differently or done this when

00:12:16.405 --> 00:12:19.065
I said I was going to

00:12:19.365 --> 00:12:20.265
do that.

00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.480
You know, I could have been maybe a

00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.280
better parent, a better, a better sibling, a

00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:32.700
better friend, whatever the circumstance.

00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.320
And then of course we project into

00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:37.980
the future.

00:12:38.795 --> 00:12:40.555
And I tell people, and this is

00:12:40.555 --> 00:12:42.315
one of those things that I was talking about

00:12:42.315 --> 00:12:43.855
that people don't want to hear.

00:12:44.875 --> 00:12:46.815
That's stuff we make up.

00:12:47.595 --> 00:12:49.755
All that stuff for the future. We make

00:12:49.755 --> 00:12:50.975
that stuff up.

00:12:52.650 --> 00:12:53.310
We just

00:12:54.730 --> 00:12:57.290
create, we fabricate all these dreams of what's

00:12:57.290 --> 00:12:59.870
going to be. So just let that go.

00:13:00.410 --> 00:13:02.270
That was stuff you made up anyway.

00:13:02.650 --> 00:13:04.665
"I'll never get to walk my child down

00:13:04.665 --> 00:13:06.745
the aisle. I'll never get to see them

00:13:06.745 --> 00:13:09.065
graduate. I'll never get to see them build

00:13:09.065 --> 00:13:11.565
this amazing company. I'll never have their grandchildren."

00:13:12.745 --> 00:13:14.525
Well, that's just stuff you made up.

00:13:15.385 --> 00:13:17.145
If I could get rid of one word

00:13:17.145 --> 00:13:19.325
in the language, it would be "should,"

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.720
you know, this shouldn't have happened. They should

00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:23.700
still  ..no,

00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:28.240
no, whatever has happened is what was meant

00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:28.900
to happen.

00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:31.540
And that the question is always,

00:13:32.705 --> 00:13:34.565
we need to let go of that question

00:13:34.625 --> 00:13:37.505
"why, why did this happen?" We're never going

00:13:37.505 --> 00:13:39.105
to know the answer to that. And even if

00:13:39.105 --> 00:13:41.905
we got some hypothetical "why," it would just

00:13:41.905 --> 00:13:43.605
lead to another. Well, why that?

00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.740
So,

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.180
you know, acceptance

00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:50.900
is like the key to everything.

00:13:51.040 --> 00:13:52.800
That was another thing I did in one

00:13:52.800 --> 00:13:53.620
of my meditation

00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.040
sessions many years ago, before I started this

00:13:57.040 --> 00:13:57.540
work,

00:13:58.385 --> 00:14:00.245
I was asking my guides,

00:14:00.545 --> 00:14:02.465
what, what do I need to do to

00:14:02.465 --> 00:14:05.605
be as helpful as possible to my clients?

00:14:05.665 --> 00:14:08.305
And immediately I hear "you need to get

00:14:08.305 --> 00:14:10.965
really clear about what helped you heal."

00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:12.120
And so

00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:13.400
three words

00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:14.360
immediately came to me:

00:14:15.060 --> 00:14:17.240
I wrote down "personal responsibility,

00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:20.420
acceptance, and willingness." And I was like, oh,

00:14:20.420 --> 00:14:23.140
those spelled PAW. So I made a little

00:14:23.140 --> 00:14:23.640
graphic

00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:25.080
that says PAW

00:14:25.435 --> 00:14:27.295
because people remember visuals.

00:14:28.155 --> 00:14:29.935
And the personal responsibility

00:14:30.235 --> 00:14:32.795
piece is all about, you know, we have

00:14:32.795 --> 00:14:36.015
to begin by taking at least 1 percent responsibility

00:14:36.155 --> 00:14:37.055
for our healing.

00:14:37.530 --> 00:14:39.150
No one can do that for

00:14:39.530 --> 00:14:41.530
us. We need to take the steps, but

00:14:41.530 --> 00:14:42.430
we need to

00:14:43.050 --> 00:14:44.190
just know that

00:14:44.650 --> 00:14:46.670
no one, no one can heal us,

00:14:47.530 --> 00:14:49.610
you know, and that personal

00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:51.790
responsibility piece is also about

00:14:53.475 --> 00:14:55.655
taking responsibility for reviewing

00:14:56.115 --> 00:14:56.615
your past

00:14:57.235 --> 00:14:59.875
relationship, whatever you have lost, and

00:14:59.875 --> 00:15:01.095
looking at it honestly.

00:15:02.035 --> 00:15:04.115
And that part of the grief recovery method

00:15:04.115 --> 00:15:05.735
is extremely helpful.

00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:08.070
And the second thing is acceptance. And I

00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:09.910
alluded to that, and I feel like that's

00:15:09.910 --> 00:15:12.490
the most important of the three. Acceptance

00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:15.350
because when you begin to accept what has

00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:18.170
happened, instead of insisting on knowing why,

00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:20.045
then you can move into,

00:15:21.385 --> 00:15:24.425
you can move into a place of asking

00:15:24.425 --> 00:15:25.945
"what, what am I meant to do with

00:15:25.945 --> 00:15:27.805
this?" I mean, I could ask forever,

00:15:28.425 --> 00:15:30.285
well, why did I lose three children?

00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:32.460
I actually never,

00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.040
I mean, I probably did wonder why

00:15:36.040 --> 00:15:38.360
is all this happening, but I never, I

00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.300
never thought "why me."

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.080
I'm like, I more often thought, "well,

00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.020
why not me?" Because I could look around

00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:45.900
and see

00:15:47.235 --> 00:15:49.235
all kinds of things. I'm not the only

00:15:49.235 --> 00:15:52.275
one that is experiencing loss and some much

00:15:52.275 --> 00:15:54.775
worse than what I would consider mine is.

00:15:56.675 --> 00:15:59.395
So that acceptance piece is so important. The

00:15:59.395 --> 00:16:01.635
question instead of why needs to be, what,

00:16:01.635 --> 00:16:03.470
what, what am I meant to do with

00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:05.870
this? How could I use this?

00:16:06.010 --> 00:16:07.770
Am I meant to use it to help

00:16:07.770 --> 00:16:08.670
someone else?

00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:11.370
Is it taking me to a higher level

00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:13.470
of knowing or learning in my own life?

00:16:13.850 --> 00:16:16.110
And the third thing, the W is willingness.

00:16:17.035 --> 00:16:18.495
You have to be willing

00:16:19.275 --> 00:16:21.615
to let go of that story

00:16:21.995 --> 00:16:24.735
that you're telling yourself about that loss.

00:16:25.275 --> 00:16:27.515
And excuse me for looking on my phone,

00:16:27.515 --> 00:16:29.995
but I have this wonderful quote on my

00:16:29.995 --> 00:16:32.380
website that I love so much. And I

00:16:32.380 --> 00:16:33.440
read it to everyone.

00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:37.040
I believe she is

00:16:37.420 --> 00:16:39.740
a poet or an author. Her name is

00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:41.680
Vienna Pharaon. And she says,

00:16:43.020 --> 00:16:45.340
she says, "Who are you if your story

00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:46.560
begins to change?

00:16:46.905 --> 00:16:49.065
Do not be so loyal to your suffering

00:16:49.065 --> 00:16:51.325
that your healing doesn't stand a chance"

Kate:
00:16:52.425 --> 00:16:55.145
Yes, that's wonderful.

Marla:
00:16:55.145 --> 00:16:57.725
That is willingness, right? Isn't it beautiful? It's willingness in a nutshell.

00:16:58.745 --> 00:17:01.225
And I find this is especially true with

00:17:01.225 --> 00:17:02.125
child loss.

00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:05.850
I've seen many, many parents who have done

00:17:05.850 --> 00:17:07.630
a phenomenal job of

00:17:08.090 --> 00:17:09.470
working through their grief,

00:17:09.930 --> 00:17:11.150
coming to an understanding,

00:17:11.850 --> 00:17:14.170
learning how to incorporate that loss into their

00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:16.170
life and relating to their child in a

00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:16.990
different way.

00:17:18.015 --> 00:17:19.235
But there are also

00:17:19.615 --> 00:17:22.415
some parents who engage in what I call

00:17:22.415 --> 00:17:24.115
the mystique of child loss.

00:17:24.495 --> 00:17:26.035
And that is this idea

00:17:26.415 --> 00:17:26.915
that,

00:17:28.415 --> 00:17:31.475
that our loss is worse than anyone else's.

00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.900
And that we are somehow,

00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:35.280
you know, on the pinnacle of

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:36.740
the grief world.

00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:40.240
And it becomes kind of a badge

00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.040
of notoriety of some kind like, well, I

00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:45.780
have the worst grief. And, you know,

00:17:46.345 --> 00:17:47.885
there are people who will say

00:17:48.745 --> 00:17:50.125
your life is ruined.

00:17:50.825 --> 00:17:53.225
You'll be devastated for life. You can never

00:17:53.225 --> 00:17:54.285
get over this.

00:17:55.145 --> 00:17:55.645
And

00:17:56.025 --> 00:17:57.325
one of the most damaging,

00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:02.680
it sounds like a very high-minded quote,

00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.080
but I find that I think it's so

00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:07.020
damaging is this idea that

00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:10.760
the depth of your grief is equated to

00:18:10.760 --> 00:18:12.140
the depth of your love.

00:18:13.125 --> 00:18:15.125
And I know what this does to parents

00:18:15.125 --> 00:18:16.345
because I've talked to them.

00:18:16.965 --> 00:18:18.025
They are afraid

00:18:18.565 --> 00:18:19.705
to move beyond

00:18:20.805 --> 00:18:23.145
and to begin to re-engage life

00:18:24.085 --> 00:18:26.645
and to feel any kind of joy or

00:18:26.645 --> 00:18:27.145
happiness

00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.120
because not only do they feel

00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:32.520
that they're dishonoring the memory of their child,

00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:34.680
but they're also concerned about what other people

00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.240
think. I've been reading the works of Nanci

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.520
Danison who had a, a very deep near-

00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:41.340
death experience.

00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.140
And

00:18:42.765 --> 00:18:44.685
I was already very familiar with a lot

00:18:44.685 --> 00:18:46.225
of what she's written, but

00:18:47.485 --> 00:18:49.805
I've learned some things in greater depth than

00:18:49.805 --> 00:18:51.265
I knew before. And

00:18:52.285 --> 00:18:53.825
I mean, if you think about,

00:18:54.205 --> 00:18:55.825
if you think about this life,

00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:58.260
you can kind of equate it to what

00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:59.720
happens when we dream.

00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:03.220
We manifest these lives and these things in

00:19:03.220 --> 00:19:04.200
our dream world.

00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:07.140
And they feel when we're in that dream,

00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:08.840
they feel extremely real.

00:19:09.525 --> 00:19:11.445
And, you know, we would swear all that

00:19:11.445 --> 00:19:13.545
is going on, even though sometimes it,

00:19:13.925 --> 00:19:15.605
I don't know about you, but sometimes in

00:19:15.605 --> 00:19:16.265
my dreams,

00:19:16.965 --> 00:19:18.725
the things that happen are against the laws

00:19:18.725 --> 00:19:19.385
of physics.

00:19:20.005 --> 00:19:20.505
But

00:19:20.885 --> 00:19:22.585
when those dreams are done,

00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:25.070
you don't agonize about them.

00:19:25.850 --> 00:19:28.010
You just let them go

00:19:28.010 --> 00:19:28.910
and they're done.

00:19:29.450 --> 00:19:29.950
And

00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.690
that's pretty much the same thing that happens

00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:34.910
when our kids pass.

00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:36.830
I mean,

00:19:38.075 --> 00:19:39.455
so let me differentiate

00:19:39.755 --> 00:19:42.955
there's these human bodies. And remind

00:19:42.955 --> 00:19:44.555
me to talk to you about that with

00:19:44.555 --> 00:19:46.255
my daughter, because that's really important.

00:19:47.515 --> 00:19:49.295
And then there's the light-being

00:19:49.675 --> 00:19:50.655
part of us.

00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:55.790
These bodies are just like  — even science classifies

00:19:55.850 --> 00:19:59.370
them as mammals or they're just human animals.

00:19:59.370 --> 00:19:59.870
And

00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:02.745
so

00:20:03.705 --> 00:20:05.805
that part is what passes away.

00:20:06.745 --> 00:20:09.005
But the light-being part of ourselves,

00:20:09.945 --> 00:20:11.645
that lives on forever

00:20:12.025 --> 00:20:14.445
because energy doesn't just go away.

00:20:14.905 --> 00:20:16.925
And I had a really, really

00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:21.820
deep lesson about this when my daughter passed,

00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:22.320
because,

00:20:24.060 --> 00:20:26.380
we had an open casket when she passed,

00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:28.220
and at the funeral home, I hadn't seen

00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:30.960
her since we left her at the hospital.

00:20:31.475 --> 00:20:33.395
And my, my oldest son was with me

00:20:33.395 --> 00:20:34.515
and he said, "Do you want to go up

00:20:34.515 --> 00:20:35.875
and see her?" And I'm like, ugh, I

00:20:35.875 --> 00:20:37.315
don't know. I just don't know if I

00:20:37.315 --> 00:20:39.075
can do it. And he said, "Come on

00:20:39.075 --> 00:20:41.555
mom." And that was such a gift that

00:20:41.555 --> 00:20:43.495
he took me up there because

00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:46.340
I looked in that casket

00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.540
and

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:49.380
that body,

00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:50.580
that

00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:51.540
container

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.060
was just that.

00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.600
It was so evident to me that I

00:20:55.600 --> 00:20:56.100
remember

00:20:56.745 --> 00:20:58.825
catching my breath and saying, oh my God,

00:20:58.825 --> 00:20:59.885
that's not Nicole.

00:21:00.825 --> 00:21:01.325
And

00:21:01.625 --> 00:21:04.685
I think that probably happened with her because

00:21:05.625 --> 00:21:08.105
the contrast between who she was when she

00:21:08.105 --> 00:21:10.925
was living  — vibrant, happy, joyful,

00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:14.900
loving  —  just made everyone around her feel good.

00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:16.600
She was just that kind of person.

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:18.120
And when she died,

00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:20.200
I knew she was fine.

00:21:20.500 --> 00:21:21.160
I mean,

00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:23.460
I, I just knew she was fine.

00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.245
I did not worry about her at all.

00:21:25.325 --> 00:21:28.845
But the contrast between that, knowing her and

00:21:28.845 --> 00:21:30.765
seeing that, I'm telling you, if you ever

00:21:30.765 --> 00:21:31.505
see that,

00:21:31.885 --> 00:21:32.385
it,

00:21:32.765 --> 00:21:34.205
you know, it will bring you a lot

00:21:34.205 --> 00:21:36.705
of comfort. If you, if you understand

00:21:37.085 --> 00:21:37.585
that

00:21:38.365 --> 00:21:38.865
these,

00:21:39.270 --> 00:21:42.810
this interaction is happening between our spirit selves

00:21:43.510 --> 00:21:44.810
and it's not our bodies.

00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:47.530
And that continues on forever.

00:21:48.070 --> 00:21:49.930
So I, I tell our parents,

00:21:50.870 --> 00:21:53.615
if I had died and I was watching

00:21:53.615 --> 00:21:54.995
my child back here,

00:21:55.455 --> 00:21:57.075
would I want them to be miserable?

00:21:57.455 --> 00:21:57.955
No,

00:21:59.295 --> 00:22:00.515
absolutely not.

00:22:00.895 --> 00:22:03.615
Please go live your life. I'm still

00:22:03.615 --> 00:22:05.395
around. I'm still around.

00:22:06.415 --> 00:22:06.915
So

00:22:07.290 --> 00:22:08.910
yeah, all those concepts,

00:22:09.290 --> 00:22:11.370
I think, can be, you know, can be

00:22:11.370 --> 00:22:12.350
very comforting.

Kate:
00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:13.710
Yes.

00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:17.930
And you can talk about this or not

00:22:17.930 --> 00:22:20.010
talk about it, but you did have an

00:22:20.010 --> 00:22:22.670
encounter with your daughter after she passed.

Marla:
00:22:22.975 --> 00:22:25.055
I've told several people about that, but I've

00:22:25.055 --> 00:22:26.195
had some amazing,

00:22:27.615 --> 00:22:30.095
amazing things happen to me. But the one

00:22:30.095 --> 00:22:31.695
that you're referring to, is it the rocking

00:22:31.695 --> 00:22:32.195
chair one?

Kate:
00:22:33.295 --> 00:22:35.555
Yes. I think so.

Marla:
00:22:36.780 --> 00:22:38.400
After she passed, it was that night or

00:22:39.020 --> 00:22:40.940
one or two nights afterward, it was like

00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:42.320
a dream, but what

00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:44.860
many of us refer to these as

00:22:44.860 --> 00:22:46.400
kind of visitation dreams.

00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:49.580
It's the difference between the kind of random

00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:52.105
dream you have that you're, you know, out

00:22:52.105 --> 00:22:54.365
flying around or whatever you're doing or interacting

00:22:54.425 --> 00:22:56.045
with people, and the kind where

00:22:56.505 --> 00:22:58.845
you have a dream and it's so real,

00:22:59.545 --> 00:23:01.085
you know, you were right there.

00:23:01.545 --> 00:23:04.410
So this is that to some degree. So

00:23:04.410 --> 00:23:06.510
I was taken by what I would consider

00:23:06.890 --> 00:23:07.870
one of my

00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:10.030
spirit guides, my helpers,

00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:13.450
through what looked like  — it wasn't a light

00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:15.530
tunnel. It was just, it literally looked

00:23:15.530 --> 00:23:17.770
like a tunnel under the ground. We went

00:23:17.770 --> 00:23:19.605
down there and I could tell that people

00:23:19.605 --> 00:23:21.925
were in various stages of dying. You know,

00:23:21.925 --> 00:23:23.225
when we pass over,

00:23:23.605 --> 00:23:25.305
it takes us a while to

00:23:26.325 --> 00:23:28.025
mentally come out of the

00:23:28.485 --> 00:23:28.985
human

00:23:30.085 --> 00:23:31.140
frame of mind.

00:23:31.620 --> 00:23:34.180
That's what state these people were in. Nicole

00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.740
was already pretty past that. So we went

00:23:36.740 --> 00:23:38.500
into a room and my guide is standing

00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:40.260
next to her and she's next to me.

00:23:40.260 --> 00:23:41.880
And she says, "Are you ready?

00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:44.180
Are you ready to see Nicole?" And I

00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:46.855
said, yes. And so Nicole comes riding into

00:23:46.855 --> 00:23:49.095
this room on Clifford, the big red dog,

00:23:49.095 --> 00:23:50.315
wearing her jammies.

00:23:51.735 --> 00:23:53.755
Of course, all of this is like iconic.

00:23:54.375 --> 00:23:56.715
You see the things that you imagine

00:23:57.175 --> 00:23:59.415
because, because you've known them here, you see

00:23:59.415 --> 00:24:01.510
them in a way that is acceptable to

00:24:01.510 --> 00:24:03.130
you in your current form.

00:24:03.510 --> 00:24:06.070
And that would so have been her, like,

00:24:06.070 --> 00:24:08.010
if, you know, if she had come in,

00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:10.390
I don't know, surfing or something, I would

00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.090
have not probably recognized her, but she loved

00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:14.810
dogs

00:24:15.975 --> 00:24:16.715
so much

00:24:18.215 --> 00:24:20.695
and she was so comfortable. And, and she

00:24:20.695 --> 00:24:21.755
came over and

00:24:22.695 --> 00:24:24.215
I think she was with me for a

00:24:24.215 --> 00:24:24.955
few minutes.

00:24:25.655 --> 00:24:27.095
That part of it is a little bit

00:24:27.095 --> 00:24:27.595
hazy,

00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:29.860
but she did come over to me and

00:24:29.860 --> 00:24:31.800
we kind of snuggled a little bit

00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:34.020
but she didn't talk to me. She

00:24:34.020 --> 00:24:35.480
has never talked to me.

00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:38.180
And then my guide said, "Are you ready

00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:39.795
to go?" And I said, yes. And then,

00:24:39.955 --> 00:24:41.955
and then I woke up, but then this

00:24:41.955 --> 00:24:43.735
other dream I had was like,

00:24:45.315 --> 00:24:47.335
it just showed me how thin

00:24:47.795 --> 00:24:49.875
the veil is. I mean, people who pass

00:24:49.875 --> 00:24:51.415
over are not in a place.

00:24:52.115 --> 00:24:53.015
It's all

00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:55.670
right here. It's just at a different energetic

00:24:55.810 --> 00:24:56.310
level.

00:24:57.970 --> 00:24:58.470
So

00:24:58.930 --> 00:25:00.530
in this dream, and I do know this

00:25:00.530 --> 00:25:02.850
was a dream because I remember waking up

00:25:02.850 --> 00:25:04.150
in a flood of tears.

00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:07.250
I, I was in a void. There was

00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:09.555
just a void and I was in a

00:25:09.555 --> 00:25:10.455
rocking chair.

00:25:11.235 --> 00:25:13.635
So there was just darkness all around me

00:25:13.635 --> 00:25:15.635
in the rocking chair, Nicole sitting on my

00:25:15.635 --> 00:25:17.315
lap and she was kind of snuggled into

00:25:17.315 --> 00:25:17.815
me

00:25:18.515 --> 00:25:20.135
and we were just rocking,

00:25:20.515 --> 00:25:23.100
and she took her hand and she cupped

00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:25.180
her hand on my face in that little

00:25:25.180 --> 00:25:26.080
sweet gesture.

00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:28.640
And the second that she did that,

00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:31.020
I woke up and I could still feel

00:25:31.020 --> 00:25:33.200
the warmth of her hand on my cheek.

00:25:33.765 --> 00:25:35.625
And I'm like, it was like,

00:25:36.405 --> 00:25:37.925
oh my God, I can feel her.

00:25:39.285 --> 00:25:41.785
It was so real, but it was physically

00:25:42.245 --> 00:25:42.745
tangible.

Kate:
00:25:43.765 --> 00:25:46.245
Which is incredible. That is the story that

00:25:46.245 --> 00:25:48.840
you told me before. I just love that

00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:49.740
story.

Marla:
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:52.220
Yeah, it was, it was just amazing.

00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:54.540
But yeah, my kids have shown up in

00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:55.980
different random ways.

00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:58.600
I was sitting in my backyard and I

00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:00.520
said, "I hadn't heard from them in a

00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:02.380
while. And could they send me a sign?"

00:26:03.165 --> 00:26:05.025
And their names are Nicole and Ryan.

00:26:05.405 --> 00:26:07.565
And the next morning, a friend of mine

00:26:07.565 --> 00:26:09.245
who had been on the East Coast looking

00:26:09.245 --> 00:26:11.245
at colleges with her daughter and staying in

00:26:11.245 --> 00:26:11.905
an airbnb,

00:26:12.685 --> 00:26:14.525
she had walked out and on the corner

00:26:14.525 --> 00:26:16.605
of her street, she texted me a photo

00:26:16.605 --> 00:26:18.160
and she said, "Hey, I just walked out

00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.600
and saw this. I thought you'd like to

00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:21.120
see this." And mind you, this is the

00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:23.120
next morning after I've asked Nicole and Ryan

00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:25.360
for a sign. And the sign said Ryan

00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:26.260
Nicole Court.

00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.100
Oh my God. Oh my God. It's sign

00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.220
Ryan Nicole

00:26:29.600 --> 00:26:30.100
Court.

00:26:30.755 --> 00:26:32.295
I was like, I just

00:26:32.595 --> 00:26:34.915
died laughing. Cause all I could think of

00:26:34.915 --> 00:26:35.415
was,

00:26:36.035 --> 00:26:38.435
I wonder how long they argued about whose

00:26:38.435 --> 00:26:39.655
name was going to go first.

00:26:40.435 --> 00:26:42.195
And of course Ryan would have come first

00:26:42.195 --> 00:26:43.875
because she was like a little mother to

00:26:43.875 --> 00:26:45.315
him. She would have let him had his

00:26:45.315 --> 00:26:45.815
way.

Kate:
00:26:47.370 --> 00:26:50.490
So then do you share these with your

00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:50.990
clients?

Marla:
00:26:51.290 --> 00:26:51.950
It depends.

00:26:52.570 --> 00:26:53.310
It depends

00:26:53.770 --> 00:26:56.190
because when I teach the Grief Recovery Method,

00:26:56.730 --> 00:26:59.370
there's a specific protocol for that. Although the

00:26:59.370 --> 00:27:00.670
Grief Recovery Method

00:27:01.525 --> 00:27:02.745
honors and respects

00:27:03.445 --> 00:27:07.145
people's spiritual beliefs and that aspect

00:27:07.765 --> 00:27:10.025
of anything that happens towards healing,

00:27:11.045 --> 00:27:11.945
it does not

00:27:12.325 --> 00:27:13.305
teach anything

00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.020
related to that. So I'm very careful about

00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:19.420
doing that. If I know that they're oriented

00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:20.320
in that direction,

00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:22.400
I might say,

00:27:22.780 --> 00:27:25.100
you know, I'm taking my Grief Recovery Method

00:27:25.100 --> 00:27:26.940
hat off for a minute because there are

00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.235
other things that I teach. I do teach

00:27:29.235 --> 00:27:31.895
those kinds of concepts. I teach Positive Intelligence,

00:27:32.675 --> 00:27:35.315
but when I'm teaching the grief recovery method,

00:27:35.315 --> 00:27:38.295
I typically stick very, very close to

00:27:38.515 --> 00:27:40.915
exactly what that curriculum is because it's so

00:27:40.915 --> 00:27:41.415
powerful.

00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:44.650
And it's so necessary, you know?

Kate:
00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:46.330
So did you

00:27:46.710 --> 00:27:47.850
become a specialist

00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:51.030
in Advanced Grief Recovery? Did you

00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:52.090
go through training?

Marla:
00:27:52.550 --> 00:27:54.710
Yes, absolutely. I'm a certified by the Grief

00:27:54.710 --> 00:27:55.770
Recovery Institute

00:27:56.685 --> 00:27:59.645
and I had studied counseling in college, but

00:27:59.645 --> 00:28:01.025
the interesting thing is,

00:28:02.045 --> 00:28:03.905
you would think otherwise, but

00:28:04.925 --> 00:28:07.585
therapists and counselors typically in academia,

00:28:07.885 --> 00:28:09.665
they don't learn about grief.

00:28:10.190 --> 00:28:12.110
In all the courses I took in college,

00:28:12.110 --> 00:28:14.530
there was not a specific course on grief.

00:28:14.830 --> 00:28:16.450
In fact, recently

00:28:16.750 --> 00:28:18.770
I was looking at some master's programs

00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:21.650
and I wanted to see if any specific

00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:22.210
track

00:28:22.635 --> 00:28:24.015
focused on that, nothing,

00:28:24.395 --> 00:28:26.475
all kinds of other maladies, but it's like,

00:28:26.475 --> 00:28:28.575
we don't want to talk about grief,

00:28:28.955 --> 00:28:30.095
and it's everywhere.

00:28:30.475 --> 00:28:31.375
It's everywhere.

00:28:32.395 --> 00:28:32.895
So

00:28:33.275 --> 00:28:35.490
to answer your question, yes, I am

00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:37.250
certified. I have studied it and practiced it

00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:39.170
for many years and it certainly helped me

00:28:39.170 --> 00:28:41.570
as well. It provided healing in a way

00:28:41.570 --> 00:28:43.810
for me that I had not experienced before.

00:28:43.810 --> 00:28:45.810
Some of the concepts I was really familiar

00:28:45.810 --> 00:28:47.730
with because when I was going through a

00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:49.910
lot of these losses, I lived overseas

00:28:51.225 --> 00:28:53.625
and I had to learn and figure things

00:28:53.625 --> 00:28:54.845
out on my own. So

00:28:55.625 --> 00:28:57.965
a lot of the concepts were not unfamiliar

00:28:58.185 --> 00:28:58.765
to me,

00:28:59.225 --> 00:28:59.725
but

00:29:00.185 --> 00:29:01.485
the process of,

00:29:01.785 --> 00:29:04.310
you know, how it's all laid out, that

00:29:04.310 --> 00:29:06.090
definitely was. And I should also

00:29:06.550 --> 00:29:08.810
say that the teacher that I had

00:29:09.830 --> 00:29:12.410
had come from her own therapy practice

00:29:13.430 --> 00:29:15.910
of 20 years and gave it up. And

00:29:15.910 --> 00:29:17.750
that she's not the only one I've heard

00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:18.250
this from.

00:29:18.875 --> 00:29:21.275
They bring the Grief Recovery method into

00:29:21.275 --> 00:29:22.895
their work, even if they remain

00:29:23.195 --> 00:29:25.535
therapists or counselors, because it's so powerful.

00:29:25.995 --> 00:29:27.215
It's been around for

00:29:27.675 --> 00:29:29.835
40-plus years, been taught all over the

00:29:29.835 --> 00:29:32.155
world to hundreds of thousands of people. And,

00:29:32.155 --> 00:29:33.935
it's the only evidence-based

00:29:34.350 --> 00:29:36.350
program in the world. In other words, it's

00:29:36.350 --> 00:29:36.850
had

00:29:37.310 --> 00:29:40.270
university-level research studies done on it showing

00:29:40.270 --> 00:29:42.370
its efficacy. I teach an associated

00:29:43.550 --> 00:29:45.710
class, but that work I do one on

00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:47.790
one with people because I just find it's

00:29:47.790 --> 00:29:48.610
more effective.

00:29:48.935 --> 00:29:51.575
People can develop a really close relationship with

00:29:51.575 --> 00:29:53.735
me and they feel very confident and open.

00:29:53.735 --> 00:29:55.895
And I can really hear what they're saying,

00:29:55.895 --> 00:29:58.135
but maybe more importantly, I can hear what

00:29:58.135 --> 00:30:00.235
they're not saying that they need to say.

00:30:00.535 --> 00:30:02.535
But I also teach a class called helping

00:30:02.535 --> 00:30:03.675
children with loss,

00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:04.880
which is

00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:08.480
so, so important because it helps adults

00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840
learn

00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:13.980
healthy ways to teach their children how to

00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:14.960
deal with grief.

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.840
And so many times, if you think about,

00:30:18.625 --> 00:30:20.465
and this is not an indictment of our

00:30:20.465 --> 00:30:23.025
parents or, you know, there's no judgment against

00:30:23.025 --> 00:30:24.405
them or against us.

00:30:24.785 --> 00:30:26.465
But I know that to some degree, I

00:30:26.465 --> 00:30:27.605
did this with my,

00:30:28.545 --> 00:30:30.245
I can use Ryan as an example.

00:30:30.865 --> 00:30:33.205
We tend to dismiss our child's

00:30:34.270 --> 00:30:36.770
sadness and anxiety because we can see that

00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:39.470
it's a small issue. Well, it's small to

00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:41.710
us, but it's not small to them. And

00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:42.850
if we're not recognizing

00:30:43.150 --> 00:30:45.230
what's happening for them and helping them work

00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:45.885
through it,

00:30:46.365 --> 00:30:49.025
then this, this is what happens. They learn

00:30:49.165 --> 00:30:51.905
not to talk about it. They learn to

00:30:51.965 --> 00:30:52.705
go away

00:30:53.005 --> 00:30:55.565
and grieve on their own. And in the

00:30:55.565 --> 00:30:59.405
absence of healthy information about grief, they make

00:30:59.405 --> 00:31:00.865
up all kinds of stuff.

00:31:01.350 --> 00:31:02.490
And if they can't,

00:31:03.110 --> 00:31:05.770
if they can't heal in a healthy way,

00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:08.330
they substitute other things

00:31:08.870 --> 00:31:11.430
for what healing should give them. And those

00:31:11.430 --> 00:31:12.810
are things like drugs,

00:31:13.110 --> 00:31:14.010
social media,

00:31:14.775 --> 00:31:15.275
alcohol.

00:31:16.135 --> 00:31:18.535
In adulthood, tt can be gambling and sex

00:31:18.535 --> 00:31:19.275
and promiscuity

00:31:19.655 --> 00:31:21.515
and any number of things.

00:31:21.895 --> 00:31:24.635
It can be super excess with exercising.

00:31:25.175 --> 00:31:26.955
It's a whole bunch of things, anything.

Kate:
00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:28.760
Eating?

Marla:
00:31:29.860 --> 00:31:31.000
Yes. Or not eating.

00:31:31.460 --> 00:31:33.240
Yep. One or the other.

00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:35.720
So with Ryan,

00:31:36.020 --> 00:31:38.440
I saw the importance of this. Even though

00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:41.140
Ryan and I talked about Nicole after she

00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:42.660
passed and I would ask him how he

00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.400
was doing,

00:31:43.845 --> 00:31:44.585
I missed

00:31:45.045 --> 00:31:46.105
so many signs.

00:31:46.885 --> 00:31:48.725
Or I saw a sign and didn't take

00:31:48.725 --> 00:31:50.725
it as seriously as I should have. I

00:31:50.725 --> 00:31:53.285
didn't see it as a warning it should

00:31:53.285 --> 00:31:55.705
have been. And it wasn't just Nicole's passing.

00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:56.930
It was

00:31:57.470 --> 00:31:59.090
difficulties with his dad.

00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:00.930
I first want to say

00:32:01.630 --> 00:32:02.610
there are many,

00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:05.630
many blessings that came from all of my

00:32:05.630 --> 00:32:06.770
challenges, including

00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:09.890
my difficult 27-year marriage.

00:32:10.795 --> 00:32:12.015
My husband had,

00:32:12.315 --> 00:32:14.155
you know, a lot of emotional problems and

00:32:14.155 --> 00:32:15.775
a couple of addictions and,

00:32:16.715 --> 00:32:17.455
you know,

00:32:17.835 --> 00:32:20.395
it ran the gamut even to death threats.

00:32:20.395 --> 00:32:20.895
And

00:32:21.675 --> 00:32:23.915
I know that all of that affected not

00:32:23.915 --> 00:32:27.170
only Ryan, but his two brothers as well,

00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:29.090
who I'm happy to say are doing really,

00:32:29.090 --> 00:32:29.830
really well.

00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:33.910
But I realized that this deeply impacted Ryan

00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:35.990
and because I was not

00:32:36.610 --> 00:32:39.475
at the time familiar enough with, you know,

00:32:39.475 --> 00:32:41.875
the concepts of grief and how we don't

00:32:41.875 --> 00:32:42.855
handle it properly.

00:32:43.235 --> 00:32:45.015
I missed so many signs

00:32:46.115 --> 00:32:48.035
related to what he was going through. And

00:32:48.035 --> 00:32:50.295
I believe it, a lot of that

00:32:51.075 --> 00:32:53.250
led to his passing. I don't, I don't

00:32:53.250 --> 00:32:55.810
feel responsible for that. Every person who takes

00:32:55.810 --> 00:32:59.110
their life is responsible for that action, but

00:32:59.730 --> 00:33:01.730
I do help people deal with, you know,

00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:04.370
the inevitable guilt, the misplaced guilt, I would

00:33:04.370 --> 00:33:06.390
say, that they often feel about that.

Kate:
00:33:07.105 --> 00:33:08.005
Right. So

00:33:08.385 --> 00:33:11.585
do you work in person?

Marla:
00:33:11.585 --> 00:33:13.365
I typically work remotely via Zoom.

00:33:13.745 --> 00:33:16.165
I've helped people all over the world. So

00:33:16.625 --> 00:33:18.385
I have clients from a lot of different

00:33:18.385 --> 00:33:18.885
places.

Kate:
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:19.980
That's wonderful.

Marla:
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.240
And the helping children with loss. I have taught

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.020
that remotely over Zoom,

00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.420
but I could teach that in person.

00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.160
I just find it's easier on Zoom because

00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.080
no one has to go anywhere. And

00:33:33.080 --> 00:33:33.900
it's surprisingly

00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:34.700
intimate,

00:33:35.155 --> 00:33:36.135
as you can tell.

Kate:
00:33:36.515 --> 00:33:39.095
Yes. I think it's terrific. Yes.

00:33:39.555 --> 00:33:41.795
Do you still do the pet one,

00:33:41.795 --> 00:33:44.995
the grief of losing a pet? May people are so close

00:33:44.995 --> 00:33:46.995
to their pets

00:33:47.395 --> 00:33:48.775
and that tends to be

00:33:49.820 --> 00:33:51.500
and

00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.160
that tends to be kind of disregarded.

Marla:
00:33:55.020 --> 00:33:56.800
Yes. It does. It does.

00:33:57.500 --> 00:33:59.920
I tell people, please don't compare losses.

00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:01.035
You know,

00:34:01.595 --> 00:34:04.015
it's not the Grief Olympics. And when you...

Kate:
00:34:05.675 --> 00:34:06.415
It's not

00:34:07.035 --> 00:34:10.015
the Grief Olympics. That's an excellent

00:34:10.155 --> 00:34:12.255
line.

Marla:
00:34:13.530 --> 00:34:15.930
It's not the grief Olympics.Yeah. We have no right to judge someone else's

00:34:15.930 --> 00:34:17.770
level of pain. I had a woman call

00:34:17.770 --> 00:34:18.910
me a few years ago

00:34:19.770 --> 00:34:21.550
and she was in this area and

00:34:22.410 --> 00:34:23.470
she said,

00:34:23.850 --> 00:34:25.790
"I know that you work with parents,

00:34:26.675 --> 00:34:29.075
but I just lost my cat of 18

00:34:29.075 --> 00:34:30.855
years." And it was her child.

00:34:31.235 --> 00:34:33.075
It was like her child. And there are

00:34:33.075 --> 00:34:34.615
people for whom animals

00:34:35.395 --> 00:34:37.175
are the closest thing to them.

00:34:37.875 --> 00:34:40.035
I totally empathize with her. I was not

00:34:40.035 --> 00:34:41.015
goint to tell her

00:34:41.660 --> 00:34:42.160
well,

00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:44.620
you know, it's not a child, but there

00:34:44.620 --> 00:34:46.620
are people that do that. And it's so

00:34:46.620 --> 00:34:47.120
unkind.

00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:48.800
So

00:34:49.180 --> 00:34:50.940
the other thing that's really important

00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:52.080
to know is that

00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:55.100
no matter what your loss is, even if

00:34:55.100 --> 00:34:56.720
you have had a similar loss,

00:34:57.515 --> 00:34:59.375
it's not helpful to tell someone

00:34:59.835 --> 00:35:01.915
I know how you feel. We don't know

00:35:01.915 --> 00:35:03.135
how anyone feels.

00:35:03.595 --> 00:35:05.535
It would be more accurate to say

00:35:05.995 --> 00:35:08.475
I lost a child or I've experienced child

00:35:08.475 --> 00:35:10.555
loss. I know what that feels, know what

00:35:10.555 --> 00:35:12.970
that felt like for me, but all

00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:15.130
loss is very unique.

00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:16.410
The relationships

00:35:16.710 --> 00:35:17.370
are unique.

00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:20.710
Even within a family, the dad and the

00:35:20.710 --> 00:35:22.570
siblings are going to experience

00:35:22.870 --> 00:35:25.670
things differently than the mother does or the

00:35:25.670 --> 00:35:27.130
extended family does.

00:35:27.875 --> 00:35:30.535
Because the dynamics of the relationship were different.

00:35:31.315 --> 00:35:33.155
So it's something that we just need to

00:35:33.155 --> 00:35:35.095
be really aware of and

00:35:35.955 --> 00:35:38.435
just be very accepting of where people are.

00:35:38.435 --> 00:35:40.595
And when someone comes to us and wants

00:35:40.595 --> 00:35:42.260
to talk about their loss or needs to

00:35:42.260 --> 00:35:44.020
talk about their loss, our job is to

00:35:44.020 --> 00:35:44.520
just

00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:46.440
be there and to hold space.

00:35:47.540 --> 00:35:49.800
And in fact, I, I typically

00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:52.740
am almost hesitant to even let people know

00:35:52.740 --> 00:35:55.060
that I've lost three children because if they

00:35:55.060 --> 00:35:56.440
do know, I immediately

00:35:56.740 --> 00:35:57.675
say, but look,

00:35:58.875 --> 00:36:01.035
my loss is not any worse than anyone

00:36:01.035 --> 00:36:01.935
else's because,

00:36:02.235 --> 00:36:04.555
you know, immediately they go to that place

00:36:04.555 --> 00:36:06.155
that most people go, oh my gosh, I

00:36:06.155 --> 00:36:08.735
don't know how you've managed that, et cetera, et cetera.

00:36:09.595 --> 00:36:11.430
My loss is no worse than anyone else's.

00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:13.670
Imagine someone who's lived with the love of

00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:16.090
their life and had a deeply close relationship

00:36:16.470 --> 00:36:18.470
for 50 years or so, and then they

00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:19.450
lost their partner.

00:36:20.710 --> 00:36:22.470
Why would I ever say my loss was

00:36:22.470 --> 00:36:23.450
worse than theirs?

00:36:25.005 --> 00:36:26.545
And that's judging

00:36:26.845 --> 00:36:27.345
too.

Kate:
00:36:27.645 --> 00:36:30.445
It's judging.

00:36:30.445 --> 00:36:31.265
And that's not helpful.

Marla:
00:36:31.885 --> 00:36:33.985
Placing hierarchies

00:36:34.445 --> 00:36:36.465
on pain is very counterproductive.

Kate:
00:36:38.020 --> 00:36:39.560
And how do we know anyway?

Marla:
00:36:40.020 --> 00:36:41.720
We just don't

00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.600
know. And that's not the point of

00:36:45.140 --> 00:36:47.560
helping each other. Anyway, I always remember

00:36:48.740 --> 00:36:50.420
that was something Nicole said to me on

00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:51.940
one of our trips back from one of

00:36:51.940 --> 00:36:54.525
her treatments, many treatments at the hospital. She

00:36:54.525 --> 00:36:55.345
said, "Mom,"

00:36:55.965 --> 00:36:57.405
just out of the blue, "I think the

00:36:57.405 --> 00:36:59.085
reason that we're here on earth is to

00:36:59.085 --> 00:37:00.065
help each other."

00:37:00.845 --> 00:37:03.105
And it just came out of nowhere.

00:37:03.885 --> 00:37:06.730
And I was like, that's so true. That's

00:37:06.730 --> 00:37:08.570
all we need to do is help each

00:37:08.570 --> 00:37:09.070
other.

00:37:09.930 --> 00:37:10.430
So

00:37:12.090 --> 00:37:14.270
we need to stay out of judgment.

00:37:14.330 --> 00:37:15.870
Judgment is so damaging

00:37:16.810 --> 00:37:18.830
and we know so little,

00:37:19.385 --> 00:37:22.025
we have no idea what's going on with

00:37:22.025 --> 00:37:22.765
other people.

00:37:23.225 --> 00:37:25.245
So if we could separate out

00:37:26.265 --> 00:37:27.325
the person

00:37:28.425 --> 00:37:29.405
from the

00:37:30.105 --> 00:37:30.605
behaviors

00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.120
that would go a long way. I mean,

00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:36.620
we are all from the same stuff.

00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:38.620
We are all part of source

00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:39.900
and

00:37:41.240 --> 00:37:44.040
all of everything that comes from a source

00:37:44.040 --> 00:37:44.940
is perfection.

00:37:46.405 --> 00:37:47.705
Only humans judge.

00:37:48.485 --> 00:37:50.505
Our spirit selves

00:37:50.965 --> 00:37:51.785
in our

00:37:52.405 --> 00:37:55.205
native spirit state, we don't judge because

00:37:55.205 --> 00:37:57.445
we're part of source. And so even source

00:37:57.445 --> 00:37:58.345
doesn't judge.

00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:00.710
We  can be discerning. We can

00:38:00.710 --> 00:38:03.210
say there's a difference between discernment and judgment.

00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:04.970
We can say

00:38:05.430 --> 00:38:07.130
that behavior is harmful

00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:08.970
and it's inciting

00:38:09.430 --> 00:38:10.890
more harmful behavior.

00:38:11.270 --> 00:38:12.570
That would be discerning.

00:38:13.535 --> 00:38:14.755
But if we say

00:38:15.935 --> 00:38:18.735
you are a horrible, awful person and you

00:38:18.735 --> 00:38:19.875
need to be condemned,

00:38:21.135 --> 00:38:22.995
that's not our place to do that.

00:38:23.695 --> 00:38:25.855
I believe that not even God does

00:38:25.855 --> 00:38:26.355
that

00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:27.380
because,

00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.400
yeah, I'm not down with this whole hell

00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:30.900
thing.

00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:33.780
I mean,

00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:34.900
what parent

00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:36.660
condemns their child,

00:38:38.080 --> 00:38:40.660
especially since it's part of us, you know?

00:38:40.745 --> 00:38:42.745
We don't condemn our kids when they make

00:38:42.745 --> 00:38:45.065
mistakes. We're like, "That was not a good

00:38:45.065 --> 00:38:47.325
idea. Maybe you'd like to rethink that."

00:38:48.185 --> 00:38:48.765
You don't,

00:38:49.225 --> 00:38:51.245
you know, torture them for eternity.

00:38:52.185 --> 00:38:54.880
That never made sense to me. So yeah,

00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:56.740
we just need to learn to be

00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:59.460
kinder and, more and more, I think,

00:39:00.560 --> 00:39:03.380
especially the world situation right now,

00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:07.520
nothing changes unless we know it needs to

00:39:07.520 --> 00:39:08.020
change.

00:39:09.225 --> 00:39:09.725
So

00:39:10.185 --> 00:39:12.205
all of the hatred and vitriol

00:39:12.505 --> 00:39:13.005
and

00:39:13.865 --> 00:39:15.805
nastiness that we see right now,

00:39:17.225 --> 00:39:19.465
that's been there for a long time. It's

00:39:19.465 --> 00:39:19.965
just

00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:22.760
decades ago, it was just under the radar.

00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:23.500
We pretended

00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:24.540
all this

00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:26.860
child abuse and

00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:28.940
all kinds of negative things

00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:30.780
and misogyny

00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:31.740
and patriarchy

00:39:32.200 --> 00:39:34.780
and racism, all those negative things,

00:39:36.855 --> 00:39:39.435
all under the radar. They weren't very public

00:39:40.375 --> 00:39:43.515
and now they are in our face

00:39:43.975 --> 00:39:45.115
all the time.

00:39:45.815 --> 00:39:46.635
And we

00:39:47.190 --> 00:39:49.750
recognize it as something that's not very

00:39:49.750 --> 00:39:51.910
good, but you know, what if that were

00:39:51.910 --> 00:39:52.570
a gift?

00:39:53.110 --> 00:39:55.370
What if those people who are doing that

00:39:56.230 --> 00:39:57.370
are instrumental

00:39:59.205 --> 00:39:59.705
in

00:40:00.165 --> 00:40:00.905
saying, "Hey,

00:40:01.525 --> 00:40:04.025
look at this. You're pretending this wasn't here."

Kate:
00:40:05.045 --> 00:40:06.325
And then it brings it

00:40:06.325 --> 00:40:07.465
out into the open

00:40:07.925 --> 00:40:08.665
and then

00:40:09.285 --> 00:40:11.860
we can actually deal with it.

Marla:
00:40:12.160 --> 00:40:14.720
Yes. We can make other choices, but if

00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:16.820
we don't acknowledge that it's there

00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:19.600
and we don't look at it, then that

00:40:19.600 --> 00:40:20.740
is going to continue

00:40:21.520 --> 00:40:24.340
and continue to have, you know, an underlying

00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:25.780
influence on everything.

00:40:26.355 --> 00:40:27.875
But now we can look at it and

00:40:27.875 --> 00:40:29.955
make the choice. "No, I don't like that.

00:40:29.955 --> 00:40:32.435
That doesn't feel good. It's not creating the

00:40:32.435 --> 00:40:34.595
kind of world that I want to share

00:40:34.595 --> 00:40:35.575
with other people."

00:40:35.875 --> 00:40:37.635
And that's another thing. When I talk about

00:40:37.635 --> 00:40:39.315
my work, I never say I'm trying to

00:40:39.315 --> 00:40:41.460
change the world. That was really, really clear

00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.000
to me in some of my contemplations.

00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:46.200
My job is to change me.

00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:47.560
And

00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:50.740
if I can have a positive impact on

00:40:50.740 --> 00:40:53.300
anybody, there is this, not just with me,

00:40:53.300 --> 00:40:55.560
but there's this massive ripple effect.

00:40:56.345 --> 00:40:57.965
And especially if you're vulnerable,

00:40:59.465 --> 00:41:00.925
vulnerability is the,

00:41:01.385 --> 00:41:03.145
you know, it's the key to trust. It's

00:41:03.145 --> 00:41:04.445
the currency of trust.

00:41:05.065 --> 00:41:06.125
If you can

00:41:06.665 --> 00:41:09.705
be vulnerable and talk about your own, your

00:41:09.705 --> 00:41:12.230
own failings and your own things that you're

00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.570
going through, or the, you know, the metamorphosis

00:41:14.790 --> 00:41:15.850
you've gone through,

00:41:16.790 --> 00:41:17.850
then people

00:41:18.150 --> 00:41:21.110
resonate. They want to be at that

00:41:21.110 --> 00:41:22.250
level of feeling

00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:24.490
about what's going on with themselves.

00:41:25.335 --> 00:41:27.355
And it gives them permission to do that.

00:41:27.735 --> 00:41:30.535
And some other people can

00:41:30.535 --> 00:41:31.035
relate.

Kate:
00:41:31.335 --> 00:41:31.835
So

00:41:32.135 --> 00:41:33.995
that shows us how

00:41:34.455 --> 00:41:37.515
alike we are versus how separate we are.

Marla:
00:41:37.735 --> 00:41:40.235
Exactly. And I think this is particularly true

00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:41.900
with people who

00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.200
are very well known and held in high

00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:44.700
esteem.

00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.200
When they can become vulnerable, people say, "Oh

00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:50.520
my gosh, they're going through that. I'm going

00:41:50.520 --> 00:41:51.260
through that."

00:41:51.640 --> 00:41:53.900
It kind of gives them permission to

00:41:54.395 --> 00:41:56.795
feel the things that they're feeling and to

00:41:56.795 --> 00:41:58.895
own the thought process that they have

00:41:59.195 --> 00:42:00.975
and to be who they really are.

00:42:01.435 --> 00:42:03.135
So, yeah, I think it's very valuable.

Kate:
00:42:05.195 --> 00:42:05.695
So

00:42:06.520 --> 00:42:08.540
some of what we've been

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.560
talking about just now, what you have been

00:42:11.560 --> 00:42:14.040
talking about, it sounds like it's part of

00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:15.340
the Positive Intelligence

00:42:16.040 --> 00:42:16.540
work.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:17.980
Is that right?

Marla:
00:42:18.855 --> 00:42:21.575
Yeah. This whole judgment piece absolutely is. I

00:42:21.575 --> 00:42:24.135
mean, the Positive Intelligence work focuses a lot

00:42:24.135 --> 00:42:26.795
on teaching us about our Master Judge.

00:42:27.495 --> 00:42:29.255
I have people, new clients, who say

00:42:29.255 --> 00:42:31.095
to me, "Well, I don't really judge very

00:42:31.095 --> 00:42:32.475
much." And I'm like, okay,

00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:35.380
you back out of your driveway in your

00:42:35.380 --> 00:42:35.880
car

00:42:36.340 --> 00:42:38.100
and you start going down the street and

00:42:38.100 --> 00:42:40.660
somebody is going too slow or they're sitting

00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:42.680
at the stop sign on their phone.

00:42:44.100 --> 00:42:46.360
You're not getting lit up about that?

00:42:47.955 --> 00:42:50.675
You know, we do that. We WTF, we

00:42:50.675 --> 00:42:51.335
do whatever

00:42:51.715 --> 00:42:52.375
we do.

00:42:53.235 --> 00:42:55.875
We judge the people in our lives. We

00:42:55.875 --> 00:42:56.855
judge circumstances,

00:42:57.155 --> 00:42:59.235
we judge ourselves and we judge each other.

00:42:59.235 --> 00:43:01.655
And in addition to that Master Judge

00:43:02.020 --> 00:43:03.000
that is constantly

00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:05.240
creating this,

00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:08.600
you know, the cyclone of dysfunction,

00:43:10.340 --> 00:43:12.280
the Positive Intelligence work,

00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:16.200
it's research based and they've come up with

00:43:16.455 --> 00:43:16.955
these

00:43:17.335 --> 00:43:17.915
nine primary

00:43:19.335 --> 00:43:19.835
saboteurs,

00:43:20.295 --> 00:43:21.355
additional saboteurs,

00:43:21.975 --> 00:43:24.475
things like the Stickler, the Controller, the Pleaser,

00:43:24.535 --> 00:43:25.195
the Hyperachiever,

00:43:25.575 --> 00:43:26.235
the Victim,

00:43:26.855 --> 00:43:28.155
they're accomplice saboteurs

00:43:28.455 --> 00:43:31.080
that the Judge pulls in. And we all

00:43:31.080 --> 00:43:32.780
have them in varying degrees.

00:43:33.560 --> 00:43:36.300
I, for instance, have a very restless Saboteur.

00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:40.140
And sometimes these accomplice saboteurs

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:41.900
tag team with each other,

00:43:42.615 --> 00:43:43.115
Like

00:43:44.055 --> 00:43:47.675
your Controller and your Pleaser will tag team.

00:43:47.975 --> 00:43:49.595
I can give you a really good example

00:43:49.815 --> 00:43:51.275
about this because I

00:43:51.575 --> 00:43:53.735
had my Pleaser  — it's not as strong as

00:43:53.735 --> 00:43:56.210
it used to be, but the Pleaser will

00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:56.950
tell you

00:43:57.330 --> 00:43:59.410
that you're doing all these good things for

00:43:59.410 --> 00:44:00.150
other people

00:44:00.930 --> 00:44:03.650
because you're kind and you want to help

00:44:03.650 --> 00:44:05.190
them and you're loving,

00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:08.310
but it's often not being honest.

00:44:08.865 --> 00:44:09.605
You're often

00:44:10.145 --> 00:44:11.125
sort of sublimating

00:44:11.425 --> 00:44:12.565
your own needs,

00:44:12.865 --> 00:44:15.505
which in turn does not allow you to

00:44:15.505 --> 00:44:16.565
have an open,

00:44:17.505 --> 00:44:20.225
completely honest relationship with someone else so that

00:44:20.225 --> 00:44:22.225
they know what your needs are, too, which

00:44:22.225 --> 00:44:24.405
is really important in a healthy relationship.

00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:26.380
But the truth is

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.320
the way the Controller gets in there, the

00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:31.880
Controller is involved in that process too, because

00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:33.500
the Controller says to

00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:34.780
you, "No,

00:44:35.240 --> 00:44:36.840
I can take care of that thing for

00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.140
that person over there.

00:44:38.795 --> 00:44:39.295
Because

00:44:39.995 --> 00:44:42.475
when you do that for that person, he's

00:44:42.475 --> 00:44:43.615
in a better mood.

00:44:44.075 --> 00:44:45.995
And then the time you spend together is

00:44:45.995 --> 00:44:46.495
happier

00:44:47.595 --> 00:44:49.695
because he's not all stressed out."

00:44:50.570 --> 00:44:51.790
This is just an example.

Kate:
00:44:53.530 --> 00:44:55.290
So who's he, who are you talking to?

Marla:
00:44:55.290 --> 00:44:57.950
Any hypothetical, any other person. Or my

00:44:58.570 --> 00:45:00.890
mom, you know: "OK, If I do all

00:45:00.890 --> 00:45:02.410
this stuff for my mom

00:45:02.410 --> 00:45:04.170
or my dad, and I keep them

00:45:04.170 --> 00:45:04.670
happy ..."

Kate:
00:45:05.205 --> 00:45:05.945
Oh, then you're in

00:45:06.965 --> 00:45:08.425
control.

Marla:
00:45:08.805 --> 00:45:10.345
Yeah. If you control the situation,

00:45:10.725 --> 00:45:12.725
the Pleaser will tell you it's because you're

00:45:12.725 --> 00:45:13.945
being nice and helpful.

00:45:14.245 --> 00:45:15.465
But the truth is

00:45:15.925 --> 00:45:16.905
you are manipulating

00:45:17.285 --> 00:45:17.785
things.

00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:19.225
You are controlling

00:45:20.230 --> 00:45:20.810
a situation

00:45:22.470 --> 00:45:24.710
so that you can get something back, which

00:45:24.710 --> 00:45:25.210
is

00:45:25.590 --> 00:45:26.570
maybe praise,

00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:29.350
maybe, you know, approval of some kind, maybe

00:45:29.350 --> 00:45:31.830
a more peaceful environment, whatever it happens to

00:45:31.830 --> 00:45:32.330
be.

00:45:33.075 --> 00:45:35.315
That's just an example of how they tag

00:45:35.315 --> 00:45:38.035
team. So I take the assessment myself every

00:45:38.035 --> 00:45:39.735
once in a while to see what's changed.

00:45:40.115 --> 00:45:42.135
And I used to have a very high

00:45:42.515 --> 00:45:45.555
Pleaser saboteur, but that's now dropped down. And

00:45:45.555 --> 00:45:48.780
instead the Avoider and the Restless Saboteur are

00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.121
tag-teaming together. I have always had a

00:45:49.121 --> 00:45:49.660
Restless Saboteur since I was little. And I

00:45:49.660 --> 00:45:51.360
realized that once I did this work.

00:45:52.220 --> 00:45:54.060
I used to get up in school and

00:45:54.060 --> 00:45:55.040
walk around and

00:46:00.805 --> 00:46:01.305
I

00:46:01.605 --> 00:46:03.145
just could never sit still.

00:46:04.085 --> 00:46:06.005
And that shows up in my adult life

00:46:06.005 --> 00:46:09.045
as well by being easily distracted. If I

00:46:09.045 --> 00:46:11.145
have to do something that I'm not familiar

00:46:11.205 --> 00:46:13.545
with, or that doesn't come easily to me,

00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:17.320
that's why the Avoider has jumped in,

00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:20.100
come up to the top of my top three.

Kate:
00:46:20.100 --> 00:46:22.680
I'm well-acquainted with the Avoider!

Marla:
00:46:23.140 --> 00:46:26.020
Yes. Many people are. "I'm avoiding doing some

00:46:26.020 --> 00:46:28.905
things because maybe I think I'll fail or

00:46:28.905 --> 00:46:30.685
maybe it's not, maybe it's

00:46:31.305 --> 00:46:32.925
more difficult for me to do

00:46:33.545 --> 00:46:35.865
it than something I'm familiar with that I

00:46:35.865 --> 00:46:37.565
can just knock out like that."

00:46:38.745 --> 00:46:39.245
So

00:46:39.705 --> 00:46:41.325
that's my current challenge,

00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:44.500
but we all have them. We all have

00:46:44.500 --> 00:46:46.600
them. If we're drawing breath,

00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:49.540
we absolutely have the Judge. So there are

00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:51.300
exercises you can do. And what I love

00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:53.860
about Positive Intelligence is that it's grounded in

00:46:53.860 --> 00:46:54.360
science

00:46:54.965 --> 00:46:58.005
and you can go on Google and see

00:46:58.005 --> 00:46:59.465
any kind of neuroscience

00:47:00.485 --> 00:47:02.905
information, and it will confirm to you

00:47:03.845 --> 00:47:04.905
how our body

00:47:05.925 --> 00:47:07.065
can help us.

00:47:07.550 --> 00:47:09.650
So in Positive Intelligence, for instance,

00:47:10.430 --> 00:47:11.250
we really

00:47:11.550 --> 00:47:12.050
get

00:47:12.750 --> 00:47:13.810
focused on

00:47:14.430 --> 00:47:16.350
touch and things in our body and how

00:47:16.350 --> 00:47:18.530
things feel, because what happens is

00:47:18.910 --> 00:47:21.170
it builds a neural pathway

00:47:21.695 --> 00:47:23.775
to the positive part of your mind where

00:47:23.775 --> 00:47:25.315
we call it the Sage mind.

00:47:26.255 --> 00:47:29.055
And in the Sage mind, the Sage powers

00:47:29.055 --> 00:47:32.195
are things like the Empathize power, Explore,

00:47:33.455 --> 00:47:37.260
Navigate, Innovate, Activate, and they all have special

00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:38.800
ways that they help you.

00:47:39.260 --> 00:47:41.580
And that part of your mind is primarily

00:47:41.580 --> 00:47:42.800
the right side of your brain.

00:47:43.420 --> 00:47:46.240
That's where clearly is our focus. Thinking happens,

00:47:46.460 --> 00:47:46.960
curiosity,

00:47:47.580 --> 00:47:48.800
empathy, compassion,

00:47:49.825 --> 00:47:52.385
kindness, happiness, all those things that make our

00:47:52.385 --> 00:47:54.965
life worth living. And that's not to say

00:47:55.025 --> 00:47:57.265
that the data driven part of our mind

00:47:57.265 --> 00:47:58.945
isn't important. Of course it is. We have

00:47:58.945 --> 00:48:01.345
to navigate the world, but this is also

00:48:01.345 --> 00:48:03.605
where fight or flight happens and survival.

00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:05.500
Survival brain

00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:08.520
is wonderful to help alert you to something

00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:09.500
that's going on,

00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:11.900
but it's not good for resolution.

00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.780
I mean, technical resolution that is data driven,

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:17.340
yes.

00:48:17.795 --> 00:48:18.295
But

00:48:19.075 --> 00:48:21.955
you know, even really, really successful businesses will

00:48:21.955 --> 00:48:22.695
tell you

00:48:23.395 --> 00:48:25.635
that the most important thing in their business

00:48:25.635 --> 00:48:28.035
is their human capital, the people that are

00:48:28.035 --> 00:48:28.535
there.

00:48:28.915 --> 00:48:31.840
And of course, all those behaviors that make

00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:32.660
those interactions

00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:33.460
positive

00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.140
and help move productivity

00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:35.940
forward.

00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.740
It's all, it's all right brain stuff.

00:48:39.120 --> 00:48:41.620
So these exercises called PQ exercises,

00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.980
they help you get into your body. And

00:48:45.795 --> 00:48:47.735
when you're in the present moment,

00:48:49.395 --> 00:48:50.935
very focused on now,

00:48:51.475 --> 00:48:53.895
you can't be thinking about

00:48:54.755 --> 00:48:56.695
past issues or the future.

00:48:57.475 --> 00:48:58.375
There's no,

00:48:58.700 --> 00:49:00.780
you know, there's no wisdom in chaos. And

00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:02.240
when your mind is in chaos,

00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:06.140
in turmoil, thinking about past transgressions or

00:49:06.140 --> 00:49:06.640
future

00:49:07.660 --> 00:49:08.160
catastrophizing

00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:09.520
about things,

00:49:09.980 --> 00:49:12.220
that's not helping you. So we have to

00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:13.680
be in the present moment.

Kate:
00:49:14.835 --> 00:49:16.055
So you're a certified coach?

Marla:
00:49:16.835 --> 00:49:19.395
Yes.

Kate:
00:49:19.395 --> 00:49:21.575
And so what would you say about it, Positive Intelligence

00:49:21.955 --> 00:49:22.455
coaching,

00:49:23.235 --> 00:49:25.095
to kind of capsulize

00:49:25.395 --> 00:49:27.555
what it does for you?

Marla:
00:49:27.555 --> 00:49:28.935
So the reason that I became a coach

00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.240
was because a colleague introduced me to it.

00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:33.760
And as soon as I started doing the

00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:35.060
work myself, I immediately

00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.620
realized that it was going to be so

00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.200
helpful for my grief clients once they did

00:49:41.200 --> 00:49:43.520
the grief work. So I typically bundle it

00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:44.020
together.

00:49:45.205 --> 00:49:46.885
And clients go through the grief work with

00:49:46.885 --> 00:49:48.805
me, and then I take them, I take

00:49:48.805 --> 00:49:51.205
them into the Positive Intelligence work. And the

00:49:51.205 --> 00:49:52.965
reason I do that is because once they've

00:49:52.965 --> 00:49:54.105
done the grief work,

00:49:54.485 --> 00:49:55.865
they can set aside

00:49:56.725 --> 00:49:57.225
their

00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:00.960
connection to all that pain in the past.

00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.120
They've let that go. It doesn't mean they've

00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:03.860
let their

00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:05.700
wonderful memories go

00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:07.060
or their love

00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:09.840
or that they're pretending it didn't happen. No,

00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.625
we get through that in a healthy way.

00:50:11.625 --> 00:50:13.545
And I've literally seen this happen. It's one

00:50:13.545 --> 00:50:15.325
of the things I love about Zoom.

00:50:16.345 --> 00:50:18.745
When people arrive at that place, I can

00:50:18.745 --> 00:50:21.465
literally see their face light up. Their whole

00:50:21.465 --> 00:50:22.445
image changes.

Kate:
00:50:23.225 --> 00:50:23.965
Oh, wow.

Marla:
00:50:24.425 --> 00:50:26.045
It's magic to watch.

00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:28.700
And even their

00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:32.120
family and co-workers notice and will say things

00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:33.800
like, "Oh my gosh, you look so much

00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:35.020
happier. What's happened?"

00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:37.020
So when this

00:50:37.640 --> 00:50:39.020
beautiful, light, energetic

00:50:39.415 --> 00:50:41.815
space opens up, then they are ready for,

00:50:41.815 --> 00:50:42.315
"OK,

00:50:43.255 --> 00:50:45.495
now what, what else? What can I do?"

00:50:45.495 --> 00:50:47.175
And that's when I take them into

00:50:47.255 --> 00:50:48.715
Positive Intelligence, because

00:50:49.415 --> 00:50:51.435
then it helps them identify

00:50:52.950 --> 00:50:56.330
ways that they are still maybe sabotaging themselves.

00:50:57.350 --> 00:50:59.350
And we all, we all have different degrees

00:50:59.350 --> 00:51:00.010
of it,

00:51:00.470 --> 00:51:02.570
but it's just super helpful. And

00:51:03.270 --> 00:51:05.210
the Positive Intelligence work actually

00:51:05.955 --> 00:51:08.195
can have an effect on future grief events,

00:51:08.195 --> 00:51:08.695
because

00:51:10.195 --> 00:51:11.255
if you are learning

00:51:11.635 --> 00:51:13.175
better ways to

00:51:13.715 --> 00:51:14.935
interact with people,

00:51:16.275 --> 00:51:19.735
it makes your relationships stronger and you're more

00:51:20.640 --> 00:51:23.120
apt to be living in the present moment

00:51:23.120 --> 00:51:25.140
and very aware of what's going on.

00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:26.900
And that in turn

00:51:27.200 --> 00:51:30.000
decreases the chance that you are doing things

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:30.740
that you'll,

00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:33.615
if someone passes for instance, that you would

00:51:33.615 --> 00:51:35.295
end up saying, "I wish I'd done that

00:51:35.295 --> 00:51:37.055
differently." Or "I wish I hadn't said that."

00:51:37.055 --> 00:51:39.135
Well, if you're doing the Positive Intelligence work,

00:51:39.135 --> 00:51:42.095
you likely will not have said things. You

00:51:42.095 --> 00:51:43.955
have created these healthier relationships.

00:51:45.560 --> 00:51:48.520
So I find it's, you know, wonderful for

00:51:48.520 --> 00:51:51.560
helping people move forward, but also wonderful in

00:51:51.560 --> 00:51:52.300
helping them

00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.000
create the kind of relationships that they never

00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:56.760
have to look back on and say, you

00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.300
know, "I could have done that better."

Kate:
00:51:58.925 --> 00:51:59.825
That's wonderful.

00:52:00.285 --> 00:52:02.625
Is the only entry into

00:52:03.485 --> 00:52:05.885
it by having grief?

Marla:
00:52:05.885 --> 00:52:07.645
No, I have done it. And by the way, that is the

00:52:07.645 --> 00:52:09.645
one thing I do in a group, because

00:52:09.645 --> 00:52:12.065
it's so helpful for people to share

00:52:12.770 --> 00:52:15.570
their experiences with these accomplished saboteurs and their

00:52:15.570 --> 00:52:17.510
Judge. It helps them feel,

00:52:17.810 --> 00:52:20.290
"Oh my gosh, me too." So they

00:52:20.290 --> 00:52:22.770
realize that, "OK, we're all going through this."

00:52:22.770 --> 00:52:25.970
No human escapes this at all.

Kate:
00:52:25.970 --> 00:52:28.215
You wrote a piece that you shared with me,

00:52:28.535 --> 00:52:31.255
and it was about this judge.

Marla:
00:52:31.415 --> 00:52:32.875
"The Tyranny of the Judge."

Kate:
00:52:33.175 --> 00:52:36.215
Yes.

00:52:36.215 --> 00:52:36.695
And it was so powerful. And immediately,

00:52:37.175 --> 00:52:39.435
I told you this already, but I immediately

00:52:39.575 --> 00:52:40.635
saw my own

00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:43.800
self in it. And so I understand what

00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:44.460
you're saying

00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:45.820
with your groups.

Marla:
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:48.680
Yeah. On my website, I call it Mental

00:52:48.680 --> 00:52:50.940
Fitness Mastery, but I use the Positive Intelligence

00:52:51.080 --> 00:52:53.500
word for it. Mental fitness is just,

00:52:53.835 --> 00:52:56.075
it's actually more important, I think, than physical

00:52:56.075 --> 00:52:57.935
fitness. But if you went to the gym,

00:52:57.995 --> 00:52:59.595
you wouldn't go for six weeks and say,

00:52:59.595 --> 00:53:02.015
"OK, I'm fit for life now." No.

00:53:02.315 --> 00:53:04.635
And it's the same thing with this. Mental

00:53:04.635 --> 00:53:07.140
fitness is a practice for life. There are

00:53:07.140 --> 00:53:08.820
things that you can do if you maintain

00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:09.640
these practices.

00:53:10.340 --> 00:53:12.660
And we're always more likely to do that

00:53:12.660 --> 00:53:13.800
if we're in a group,

00:53:14.180 --> 00:53:16.680
because there's that group encouragement effect.

00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:19.300
And it's just been proven to be, you

00:53:19.300 --> 00:53:21.780
know, you adhere to things better. You encourage

00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:22.520
each other.

00:53:22.865 --> 00:53:24.865
So yes, it's better in a group. And

00:53:24.865 --> 00:53:26.705
I have done, in fact, I have a

00:53:26.705 --> 00:53:28.625
group right now that is a mix of

00:53:28.625 --> 00:53:30.545
people who've done grief work and who haven't.

00:53:30.545 --> 00:53:32.385
So yes, I do it separately as

00:53:32.385 --> 00:53:34.945
well. But often what happens is when they

00:53:34.945 --> 00:53:37.800
start doing the Positive Intelligence work, they realize,

00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:39.380
you know, "I probably need to do some

00:53:39.380 --> 00:53:41.620
grief work as well." And we have different

00:53:41.620 --> 00:53:44.180
kinds of grief too.

Kate:
00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:46.820
So that's what made me ask that question that it may not

00:53:46.820 --> 00:53:47.320
be

00:53:48.500 --> 00:53:49.000
specifically,

00:53:49.795 --> 00:53:52.355
you know, a passing, but it's still a

00:53:52.355 --> 00:53:54.615
loss.

Marla:
00:53:55.155 --> 00:53:57.315
Yes. Really good point. In fact, I've had clients who have

00:53:57.315 --> 00:53:59.155
come to me, for instance, for the loss

00:53:59.155 --> 00:54:01.735
of a child. And I explained to them,

00:54:01.990 --> 00:54:03.850
the first thing that we do is

00:54:04.150 --> 00:54:05.670
we go back and we do kind of

00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:06.570
a life review

00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:08.790
and we look at your losses from the

00:54:08.790 --> 00:54:11.110
beginning. And they'll say, "I haven't really

00:54:11.110 --> 00:54:13.990
had any other losses." Because people are so embedded

00:54:13.990 --> 00:54:16.810
in their minds, a loss means someone's died.

00:54:17.295 --> 00:54:19.215
It is the primary, just like you've

00:54:19.215 --> 00:54:21.615
said, just the primary big one. And I

00:54:21.615 --> 00:54:23.695
model everything. So when I go through mine,

00:54:23.695 --> 00:54:25.155
they're like, "Oh my gosh."

00:54:26.015 --> 00:54:27.555
And it's big stuff.

00:54:28.815 --> 00:54:31.315
If you've been

00:54:31.620 --> 00:54:34.840
sexually abused in any way, or you felt

00:54:35.060 --> 00:54:36.520
compromised as a child,

00:54:37.140 --> 00:54:38.200
if you had

00:54:38.500 --> 00:54:40.740
not been in a loving environment, if you've

00:54:40.740 --> 00:54:43.800
been emotionally abused, those are all grief events.

00:54:44.385 --> 00:54:47.345
And the more we stuff those down and

00:54:47.345 --> 00:54:48.885
don't acknowledge them,

00:54:49.185 --> 00:54:50.725
they stick with you forever

00:54:51.345 --> 00:54:54.785
and they impact your adult life. And it renders

00:54:54.785 --> 00:54:57.365
you incapable of having healthy relationships.

00:54:58.050 --> 00:54:59.430
It'll show up in

00:54:59.970 --> 00:55:01.590
alcohol abuse, drug abuse,

00:55:02.610 --> 00:55:03.510
sex addiction,

00:55:04.290 --> 00:55:06.770
all of these things, any way to soothe

00:55:06.770 --> 00:55:07.990
yourself in a way

00:55:08.770 --> 00:55:11.570
that should have happened by addressing your grief

00:55:11.570 --> 00:55:13.555
when you were little. So yes, there are

00:55:13.555 --> 00:55:16.515
many, many things, even things like the loss

00:55:16.515 --> 00:55:18.375
of the ability to,

00:55:19.075 --> 00:55:21.155
to control your body. If you've had, you

00:55:21.155 --> 00:55:23.255
know, a major illness or a major accident.

00:55:23.875 --> 00:55:26.055
That's absolutely ... even for a child

00:55:26.490 --> 00:55:28.330
having to leave a home that they've lived

00:55:28.330 --> 00:55:30.270
in for ages, or divorce.

00:55:30.970 --> 00:55:33.070
All of these things count for sure.

00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:34.750
Bullying at school.

Kate:
00:55:35.530 --> 00:55:36.030
Yeah.

00:55:36.330 --> 00:55:36.830
Wow.

00:55:37.770 --> 00:55:39.610
So you do, as I said at the

00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:42.465
beginning, you do important work.

Marla:
Oh, thank you.

Kate:
00:55:42.465 --> 00:55:43.445
Healing work.

Marla:
00:55:44.465 --> 00:55:45.765
Yeah. It's very rewarding.

00:55:46.145 --> 00:55:46.965
Very rewarding.

Kate:
00:55:47.665 --> 00:55:50.545
I bet. Is there anything else you want to

00:55:50.545 --> 00:55:51.525
say about it?

Marla:
00:55:52.625 --> 00:55:55.205
Just that it's not as scary as it

00:55:55.825 --> 00:55:56.885
seems

00:55:57.530 --> 00:55:59.770
when you have someone sort of guiding you

00:55:59.770 --> 00:56:01.710
through it, and you're not alone,

00:56:02.090 --> 00:56:02.830
you know.

00:56:03.850 --> 00:56:06.250
We're all from the same stuff. We're all

00:56:06.250 --> 00:56:09.130
going through some degree of the same things,

00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:11.150
and there's no need to be ashamed

00:56:11.475 --> 00:56:13.395
or feel guilt. And I always tell my

00:56:13.395 --> 00:56:13.895
clients,

00:56:14.835 --> 00:56:17.715
you can't, you can't shock me. I've either

00:56:17.715 --> 00:56:19.415
done it or I've heard it.

00:56:19.715 --> 00:56:20.215
So,

00:56:21.155 --> 00:56:23.155
so yeah, I would just say your mental

00:56:23.155 --> 00:56:25.620
fitness is so important and it has to

00:56:25.620 --> 00:56:27.160
be a lifelong practice.

00:56:27.620 --> 00:56:30.340
And beginning with grief work is healthy. And

00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:32.200
here's one more thing I would say.

00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:35.300
There are so many people I talk to

00:56:35.300 --> 00:56:35.800
who

00:56:37.060 --> 00:56:38.360
want to do the work,

00:56:39.795 --> 00:56:42.135
but being willing to invest in it

00:56:42.675 --> 00:56:44.755
is maybe a different thing. And that doesn't

00:56:44.755 --> 00:56:46.435
just go for this kind of work, but

00:56:46.435 --> 00:56:48.435
maybe you should be getting some physical therapy

00:56:48.435 --> 00:56:50.515
or maybe you should be getting a massage

00:56:50.515 --> 00:56:51.875
every once in a while, or maybe you

00:56:51.875 --> 00:56:53.495
should be going to the gym.

00:56:54.030 --> 00:56:55.570
Lots of times people will

00:56:57.150 --> 00:56:59.470
just somehow put it aside and spend their

00:56:59.470 --> 00:57:02.290
money on something else. Make yourself a priority.

00:57:02.430 --> 00:57:03.650
I promise you

00:57:04.510 --> 00:57:05.810
that when you do

00:57:06.430 --> 00:57:07.730
everything can change

00:57:08.465 --> 00:57:10.865
in a practical sense, in a spiritual sense,

00:57:10.865 --> 00:57:13.825
in an emotional sense. So absolutely invest in

00:57:13.825 --> 00:57:14.325
yourself.

00:57:15.025 --> 00:57:16.805
You and your relationships,

00:57:17.105 --> 00:57:18.645
the constellation of relationships

00:57:19.025 --> 00:57:21.285
in your life, will all benefit for sure.

Kate:
00:57:21.810 --> 00:57:24.070
How do people get ahold of you?

Marla:
00:57:24.610 --> 00:57:26.530
They can reach me if you go to

00:57:26.530 --> 00:57:28.710
my website at inspiredgriefrecovery.com.

00:57:29.810 --> 00:57:31.110
If you scroll down,

00:57:31.490 --> 00:57:34.130
there's a link. You can connect with me

00:57:34.130 --> 00:57:36.555
for a 30-minute call or send me

00:57:36.555 --> 00:57:38.095
an email at marla@inspiredgriefrecovery.com.

00:57:40.635 --> 00:57:43.515
And on Instagram and Facebook under Inspired Grief

00:57:43.515 --> 00:57:44.655
Recovery. 

00:57:45.195 --> 00:57:47.835
I know that people need encouragement and, you

00:57:47.835 --> 00:57:49.835
know, not everybody's goint to agree with the things

00:57:49.835 --> 00:57:52.300
that I say and that's OK. That's OK.

00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:54.240
That's the other thing that I really respect.

00:57:54.940 --> 00:57:56.480
Everyone's in a different place.

00:57:56.780 --> 00:57:59.020
I may not be right about things, but

00:57:59.020 --> 00:58:00.800
this is where I'm at right now.

00:58:01.340 --> 00:58:03.520
You know, our beliefs ... and our orientation

00:58:04.095 --> 00:58:06.415
changes over time. I don't believe the same

00:58:06.415 --> 00:58:08.435
things now that I did 10 years ago.

00:58:09.215 --> 00:58:11.455
Ten years ago, I believed things differently than

00:58:11.455 --> 00:58:13.615
the previous 10 years, and that's good. That's

00:58:13.615 --> 00:58:14.515
how we grow.

00:58:15.135 --> 00:58:17.715
So just if we can all be accepting

00:58:17.855 --> 00:58:19.395
of where we each are

00:58:19.990 --> 00:58:22.570
and honor that, I think that's super important.

Kate:
00:58:23.350 --> 00:58:24.090
Hear, hear!

Marla:
00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.910
Yeah. Just don't let that judge of self,

00:58:27.910 --> 00:58:28.410
circumstances

00:58:28.790 --> 00:58:30.650
or others get carried away.

Kate:
00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:32.250
Right.

00:58:33.145 --> 00:58:36.525
All right. Well, thank you, Marla. 

Marla:
00:58:36.905 --> 00:58:37.405
You're welcome. 

00:58:38.025 --> 00:58:40.285
I hope there's something worthwhile in here.

Kate:
00:58:40.985 --> 00:58:41.965
A lot worthwhile.

Marla:
00:58:42.265 --> 00:58:44.185
Oh, great. Well, thank you so much

00:58:44.185 --> 00:58:46.310
for having me, Kate. I appreciate it. 

Kate:
00:58:46.310 --> 00:58:48.490
It has been a pleasure. 

00:58:48.630 --> 00:58:51.130
This is Kate again, thanking you for listening to Everyday Creation.

00:58:51.590 --> 00:58:52.970
Please share this episode

00:58:53.350 --> 00:58:54.490
as you wish.
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