Everyday Creation
Everyday Creation is about living our purpose, lifting our vibes, and expressing our creativity for the highest good. The show's title refers to three types of creation: The ways we express ourselves (for example, with art, music and so many other pursuits fueled by purpose and passion); the parts of life that fill us with awe — birth, death, love, the big picture; and our innate personal power to create our best possible lives while also making the world a better place. You’ll hear conversations with terrific guests on matters we care about, as well as spiritual perspectives, personal essays on being our best selves, and episodes simply for information and fun. I'm your host Kate Jones, welcoming you to Everyday Creation.
Everyday Creation
Ballet, Astrology and "My Private Relationship with Van Cliburn"
At age 23, American classical pianist Van Cliburn achieved worldwide recognition during the Cold War after winning a gold medal in the first International Tchaikovsky Competition in Moscow in 1958. The Russians absolutely loved his playing.
Astrologer Christine Rakela, the author of "My Private Relationship with Van Cliburn," says that he was not only one of the greatest pianists in history, he was a wonderful person who sought to bring out the spirituality of classical music. The two became dear friends based on mutual trust and good moral values.
Cliburn's mother was his adviser for much of his life. After she died, Christine took on that advisory role when some of her clients, who knew Cliburn personally, recommended her.
Christine describes him as a gentleman who went the extra mile for people and who always did his best for audience members, who included concert-goers around the world, heads of state, royalty, and U.S. Presidents.
He also was a social being who had celebrity friends, including the actress Angie Dickinson.
In this episode, Christine talks about how she used astrology to guide Cliburn in his career and other important areas of his life. She says that astrology is a tool that can help people make the most of their lives.
She also talks about her previous career as a ballet dancer as well as her 22 years as producer and host of "Astrology Connection," which aired on Manhattan Cable.
Christine's final conversation with Cliburn took place on February 15, 2013. Two days later, he had dinner with Dickinson; his attorney; and his assistant. That evening marked the end of what was a busy social time for Cliburn, despite his having a terminal illness. He died on Feb. 27, 2013.
To learn more about Van Cliburn and his legacy, visit The Cliburn website. The Cliburn is another name for the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, first held in 1962 in Fort Worth, Texas, and hosted by the Van Cliburn Foundation. You also can check out Cliburn's biography on Wikipedia.
Christine is a professional astrologer certified by the National Council for Geocosmic Research. You can learn more about her, as well as buy a copy of "My Private Relationship with Van Cliburn," on her website. The book is available on Amazon too. The photo on the book's cover was used courtesy of The Cliburn. You'll see the cover pictured in several of this episode's chapters.
Christine also wrote "Traveling By The Stars" and "The Love Relationship Formula," which you can find on her website.
This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Spotify and Audible.
Kate: 00:24
Hello and welcome to Everyday Creation, a show about living our purpose, lifting our vibes, and expressing our creativity for the highest good.
I’m Kate Jones here with Christine Rakela, the author of “My Private Relationship with Van Cliburn.”
Cliburn was a renowned classical pianist who played for royalty, heads of state, and every U.S. president from Harry S. Truman to Barack Obama.
Kate: 00:59
After Cliburn died in 2013, he was the subject of a clue in a final round of “Jeopardy,” his favorite TV game show. This was the clue: “The cover of the May 19th, 1958, Time Magazine called him the ‘Texan Who Conquered Russia.’”
I think that’s a pretty good place to start our conversation.
Kate: 01:26
Christine, welcome to Everyday Creation. So that “Jeopardy” clue referred to what momentous time in Cliburn’s life and career?
Christine:
Well, that referred to when he won the gold medal in Russia. And I think only one person was able to get it right.
Kate:
Well, you would have if you had been on the show.
Christine: Absolutely.
Kate:
In in your book, Christine, you wrote that you wanted more people to understand who Cliburn was and what he gave to the world. Would you elaborate on that?
Christine:
Well, first and foremost, Van Cliburn was a wonderful person that I was very happy to know. He was a true artist that went beyond his craft of playing classical music on the piano.
Christine: 02:20
He described himself as a messenger who did not want to take credit for his phenomenal talent, but saw it as a gift from God. He always wanted to go beyond the ego, to experience a more spiritual place with his music. I talk about that quite a bit in my book, quoting him as well.
Kate:
It really comes across that you thought so highly of him.
Christine: 2:49
Yes, I, I did, as I mentioned, you know, he was just terrific and he wanted to bring out the best in everyone around him, and he made a special effort to do so.
Kate:
It really seemed to me, from reading the book, that Cliburn’s spirituality and his love for classical music were intertwined. And that playing for audiences was much more than a performance, it was a calling for him. Is that a fair assessment, would you say?
Christine:
Absolutely. It was his destiny to be one of the greatest pianists in history. He appreciated his position in life and was keen on sharing classical music with the world.
Kate:
He was also a tall, handsome, sensitive artist who was a very social person with celebrity friends.
Christine:
He was such a gentleman. And as I mentioned, he really wanted to bring out the best in people so he went that extra mile. He was unusual in the way that he was larger than life, yet also so humble, gracious, generous and understanding. He wanted so much to always do the best he could for his audience. And that was not so much for him, but it was what it would do for classical music.
Kate:
Elevating it. Elevating classical, always.
Christine:
Yes.
Kate:
That’s great.
Kate: 04:22
You were his adviser for just shy of 20 years. How did you get to know him?
Christine:
Well, what happened was, his mother had passed away and some of my clients actually knew him and thought he might benefit from talking to me. So he called. And we had a great instantaneous connection. It seemed like it was just meant to be.
Kate:
Did you, when he called you, did you kind of almost drop the phone?
Christine:
Not exactly. I was informed beforehand that he was going to call. I guess the funny thing is, I didn’t really know who Van Cliburn was. And so I thought he was just another client that I was going to be working with. With my clients, I like to treat everyone equal, whether they’re a celebrity or not. And to me, he was, you know, someone that was going to possibly end up being a client. So I conversed with him in that particular manner. As I became aware of who he was, after consulting with him for a while, then it really started to hit me that he was somebody incredibly special in the world, but I have to tell you I always thought that regardless of the fact that he was such a phenomenal, pianist.
Kate:
You used astrology in your advising of, or your advice to Van Cliburn. So would you please talk about how, with astrology, you guided him in his travels, to determine optimal places and times for his performances, and also about other matters, including health and finances and whatever else. An example or two, please.
Christine:
In the use of astrology, every moment there are different planetary influences affecting us. So when we would work on scheduling a date, for instance, that Van would perform on, usually we had two or three days to choose from or a certain period of time. We would pick the best one according to the influences. And picking the best date, it was not only good for Van but it was also good for his audience as well.
Kate:
How could you determine that it would be good for his audiences since you were using his chart?
Christine:
I was using his chart, but I’m also looking at what are called daily transits. And we would try to match the daily transits up with Van’s chart. And Van had several charts. There’s not just your natal chart, there’s your progressed chart, and there’s your solar chart, there’s your solar return, there’s your lunar return, there’s several charts involved here. So it’s quite a project, you know, when we’re doing this. But we both enjoyed it, the process of it. Van really loved astrology, and he didn’t, you know, have the particular knowledge that I did, but I have to tell you, the questions he would ask me were excellent. He was very well aware of what was going on with certain influences.
Kate:
Wow. He was also a religious man, but his belief in God was not at odds with his belief in astrology. You say in your book that he saw astrology as a tool?
Christine:
Yes. Yes. Van very much saw astrology as a tool and, in doing so, he, as well as myself, we did not let that interfere with our beliefs in God. As I write in the book, God to us was the ultimate, but astrology was such that we felt that it was something that God gave us to help us in our lifetime. And so we utilized that information.
Kate: 08:47
This is going to be a little bit of an aside, but you’ve been an astrologer for 30-plus years. What drew you to astrology?
Christine:
Good question. At first, someone suggested to me that I study astrology when I first moved to New York and, I, I told them, no, I’m not interested. At the time I was pursuing a career in ballet, and I did dance for several years until the astrology business just took over. So I had to retire early actually. But I was intrigued, and so I decided to explore it a little bit. And I started discovering that things were pretty accurate and certain influences were accurate. And I thought, well, well, maybe there’s something to this. So then I started studying it. And after a while started doing some readings for my friends, of course, and they kept coming back saying, “Wow, you know, you were really right. Can you tell me more?” And then gradually it just started to become a business. And then I realized I needed to do something more professional with this. And so I became certified. And that’s where you have to go through four levels of study. And it takes about four years to really do a good job in terms of becoming a certified astrologer. And, yeah, then I became certified and things kind of took off from there. I also would do readings at parties and started a little business, and someone saw me from Manhattan Cable when I lived in New York City. And they said, “You know, you would be really good on television.” And I said, well, you know, I’ve never been on TV. And she goes, “Here, call the number.” So I did. Three weeks later, I was on the air. And, you know, I was live for 22 years.
Kate:
Oh, my gosh. So this was, a show that was local to New York city at the time?
Christine:
It was on Manhattan Cable, but it could reach like a half a million people. So the exposure was incredible. And I was on 8:30 on Thursday night when most people are home, so I would have quite an audience. And we would have a good time. It was very energizing and I love to help people. And so, you know, it’s kind of a win-win for everyone.
Kate:
So this is fascinating, Christine. Did you actually do readings on the show?
Christine:
Yes, I did. I would have to consolidate what I was saying to try to get my point across on certain aspects of what they were asking about, and it was a little challenging because I was feeling a little pressure. And it’s live so live becomes, you know, a whole other ballgame in and of itself. But I was able to ascertain very quickly what was going on by just a glance sometimes. I could say, “Oh, you know, this is going to end soon. Don’t worry about it.” Or "this is what you need to do" or whatever. And I think it was extremely helpful for people.
Kate:
Yeah, that is fascinating. And it’s so interesting. You were a ballet dancer. And this person thought you ought to study astrology. Do you recall what that person saw in you?
Christine:
Well, this person was a psychic and I think I was 20, going on 21. I was working in like a really classy New York deli. And they came in and she kept looking at me when she was getting her food order. And then she finally came up to me and said, “I think you’re going to do astrology someday.” And I thought, no. I said, “No, I’m going to be a dancer.” And she kind of smiled and walked away. I never saw her again, but it was enough to explore. And one thing led to another, it just flowed. It flowed very naturally. You talked about how Van Cliburn had a calling in life, which absolutely he did to become one of the most famous legendary pianists in history. And for myself, my calling was to be an astrologer, and it was so natural, just communicating the information to people. I was able to pick up things very quickly. My mind is mathematical, so I was able to ascertain what was going on and hurry up and get to the point. And through the years, I also learned how to be very objective with people. They didn’t want me to beat around the bush, “Give me the straight answers.” Okay!
Kate:
That’s a wonderful story.
Christine:
Yes, yes. You know, and the same would go with Van: “Tell me exactly what you're seeing. I want to know. What do you think of this? And what do you think of that?” And it was good because then we would both pull our knowledge together.
Christine: 14:15
You, had asked me about the dates that we were choosing, but at a certain point we were also going over his health situation. And that became very troubling, especially the last few years of his life. I could see what was going on in his astrology chart. But being the Sagittarian that I am, I try to be more optimistic than pessimistic about things. So, of course, I was hopeful that we would get through this, but there were some pretty serious debilitating influences going on. And he would ask me about it: “Well, what do you think about that?” I’m not a person that, um, predicts when someone’s going to pass away. I’m always very hopeful. I feel that death is God’s call, not mine. But you know, I’m here to help people with whatever it is they’re going through
Kate:
Well, you and Van Cliburn got along famously, even though most of your time together was long distance by phone.
Kate: 15:17
Why do you think you became such great friends?
Christine:
Well, that’s a very good question. I think when you really look at what happened, we had an unusually wonderful rapport right from the start. We could trust one another, talk about anything. And we were also very in sync with each other and, at times, just kind of read each other’s thoughts and even go, “Yeah, I understand what you’re meaning, you know,” and go on to the next thought. And when you’re doing this for almost 20 years, a friendship develops. There was not anyone else, I think, he really trusted on that particular level, to really get into some of the, questions that were very, very tricky. And, yeah, trust and the wonderful rapport we had just helped us develop this incredible friendship. And the ending of my book brings that out more, how our dear friendship evolved and where it took us.
Kate:
He was very supportive of you and I really liked sweet story you had in the book about his telling you to make sure you kiss your daughter goodnight for him. That really touched my heart.
Christine:
Yes, toward the end of his life, and this was our last session — I didn't know it was going to be, but it was. He brought up my very young daughter at the time and encouraged me to be sure and give her a goodnight kiss. I said, I will. And then he repeated it. He very clearly repeated it. He knew that his time was running out on this planet. And he was clearly directing my attention to my daughter.
Kate:
What else would you like to say about your relationship with him?
Christine:
Well, it was definitely very special, that’s for sure. And when I think back in time as to what was going on, sometimes I’m a little overwhelmed because when you’re going through something like this, you’re dealing with a legend and you're enjoying your time with them, you don’t realize that one day it’s, it could end. It was almost like we were both on this high and then all of a sudden, you know, everything changed. And it was very dramatic for both of us.
Christine: 18:04
But I bring this out in the book that Van always told me he wasn’t afraid of death, that he was okay with it, that he was just fine with it. And it helped me help him, especially through, you know, the last few years of his life where he was having some serious problems. I think that also Van wanted very much to speak at the Van Cliburn 50th Anniversary Gold Medalist Concert. And although he was terminally ill, he still wanted to say something. I think that was so important to him. And we went over his speech several times. He was still very nervous from what I recall, but he really wanted that to happen, and I think he was just kind of wrapping things up in a way with that particular speech.
Christine: 19:05
That was not the end of his social life, as I describe in the book. It was a very social time for him. Almost to the time that he passed away.
Kate:
Yeah, because that 50th Anniversary Gold Medalist Concert was in 2012.
Christine:
Correct. And I told him this from his chart. I told him, I said, “Van, this still could be a very social time for you. So get ready.” And he was attending a lot of events, even in his condition, and would also be seeing people because many people wanted to come by and thank him and what have you. The final conversation I had with Van Cliburn was February 15, 2013. And it was two days later that he had dinner with his attorney; [the actress] Angie Dickinson; and also his assistant, and they had a wonderful time, his assistant told me. Maybe too wonderful because the next day, he started gradually passing over. But he really didn’t, uh, die until February 27th, 2013. And his assistant called me. He was so wonderful over the phone. We had a very lengthy conversation about Van. And he wanted me to fly into Fort Worth. So I did. And I have to tell you, I experienced the most phenomenal funeral for Van Cliburn.
Christine: 20:35
It was just what he deserved for all of the wonderful things that he did for classical music and for the many, many people that he met in his lifetime. Wonderful eulogies. And the symphony was in the church playing, and they were incredible. They were beyond incredible. I was so impressed, and it was so moving. And the place was packed with people who loved Van Cliburn. And they were, you know, we were all sending him off to his spiritual sojourn. And it was a really incredible time. And, unlike most funerals, it was very uplifting. It was definitely a celebration of life.
Kate:
Ah, that sounds lovely. Fitting and lovely.
Christine:
Yes, definitely.
Kate:
So is there anything else you'd like to say before we, we go on? Not to the beyond, but just go on.
Christine: 21:47
I'd like to share with you a couple of stories.
Kate:
Wonderful.
Christine:
There’s a few stories that I share in the book that I think people will really enjoy. Van was a very cultured person, and I share a great story about being a cultured person. And it’s not about having money. And I go into detail about what Van experienced through his mother pointing things out about people who were cultured and those who were not. And he said he learned such a wonderful lesson from her. She was also a very spiritual woman And I think she inspired him to be as spiritual as he was. For Van, it wasn’t just playing the music, but it was bringing out the spirituality of the music. He did not like it when he saw people that were performing and focused more on their ego than what they were bringing to the music. And he could tell, of course. I write about that quite a bit in the book as well.
Christine:
When Van went to Russia, which at that time it was a Communist country, so he was specifically told not to talk about politics. And he said that it was very hard to do, you know, because he was a talker. He really enjoyed conversation. And he said to me one evening, “Yes, I have to tell you, they must have thought I was a boy from the backwoods.” And it was very funny.
Kate:
And the Russian people loved him.
Christine:
Oh my goodness, did they ever! Yeah, he also described how when he was playing — and he was kind of laughing when he said this — “they would throw anything they could on the stage just to let me know that they really enjoyed hearing the classical music I was playing.”
Christine:
He had a wonderful sense of humor. Of course, yeah, I was appreciating it but I was also working very hard at my job, which was guiding him in the best way that I could. Sometimes it wasn’t always about astrology. It was about listening to him and talking things out to see what was the best path to follow. And there are some excellent stories in the book about that as well.
Kate: 24:18
Is there anything else you’d like to say about astrology since this has been your vocation for quite a while?
Christine:
Yes, it has. Astrology, has been, uh, doing astrology, I should say, has been a fascinating life for me. It’s something that is happening around us all the time. It’s always there, and it’s always significant. And if we care to acknowledge it, we might find that we understand situations much better in our life because of what’s going on, and also maybe work with the energy. Maybe when the energy is stressful, take it a little easier. Maybe when it’s more productive, do more. There is a way to work with the energy to enhance your life. And basically speaking, it is about enhancing your life and making the most of it. I’ve had thousands and thousands of clients throughout the years. I started doing readings when I was 22 years old, so it's been a while.
Kate:
You were dancing and doing readings.
Christine:
I was dancing and doing readings. I would dance, then do readings. And then go back to dancing or performing, depending on what was going on. It was very busy, but at the time I was very young, and so I could deal with that.
Kate:
You had the energy and the interest in doing that. Did you work for a particular ballet company? What did you do?
Christine:
Well, being an astrologer, you can travel. So I did some seasons with Sacramento Ballet. There were companies at the time in New York. I don’t know if they still exist. Manhattan Dance Theater, Long Island Ballet, and I danced in Texas, Montana, Tennessee, you know, different places depending on where my dancing took me. But what was nice about that is that I could bring my astrology with me.
Kate:
That’s excellent. Quite versatile, Christine.
Christine:
Yes, it was a pretty incredible time. I lived in New York for 30 years and it was a very fascinating time for me.
Kate:
I bet it was.
Christine:
It certainly had its wonderful moments. There were also challenging times, too. You know, it’s sometimes difficult to be in Manhattan, and you run into certain situations that maybe you’re not anticipating. And I learned a lot, especially coming from a very shielded upbringing, but I always tried to stay with my good values. And I think that that was one of the connections that Van Cliburn and I had. We were raised, both raised in a certain way — to have, and keep in our lives, good moral values and to respect those around you. That was something that was very strong in our upbringing besides the spirituality. And so we had these really strong common denominators that enabled us to establish this incredible rapport and wonderful, friendship that gradually grew between us.
Kate:
Yes, and you were very lucky to have that, both of you.
Christine:
Yes. It was very special. And as I described in the book, we both knew it was very special. We looked forward to speaking to each other. “You can call me.” “You free tonight?” “Yeah, I’d love to speak with you.” And, you know, this would go on sometimes night after night. And it was just a wonderful time for us.
Kate:
Marvelous. Well, congratulations on your book, and I hope that it’s doing well.
Christine:
Yes, it is.
Kate:
Terrific. Okay, thank you again for being on, and to the audience, thank you so much for listening to Everyday Creation. Please share this episode with classical music enthusiasts, astrology fans, and anyone else who might enjoy it.
